Need Help Filming Dice On Craps Table For Slo-Mo Analysis

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    • #59316
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Hello,  Thank you for allowing me to join your website, as I see it is loaded with tons of information and knowledgeable people.

      Secondly, thank you for reading my question.  I'm new to the video arena, and I'm searching for a camera solution that will enable me to record and play-back in slow-motion, two dice as they fly through the air and land on a craps table. I'd like to be able to analyze the flight of the dice, their rotation, their positioning in relation to the deck (top of the table), as well as see how they react once they land onto the table.

      It was suggested to me that the Casio EX-ZR1000 would do the trick; however I am looking for some expert opinions and ideas. I also see that the EX-ZR1000 isn't available in the USA, for some reason, and the "normal" Retail is ~$350, but now sellers are getting up to triple that.  I guess it's due to supply/demand nonsense.

      My budget is ~$1500 – $2000, and slightly over that if needed, for the right gear. I hope you can assist me.

      Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and help.    BigBen

    • #207237
      AvatarCville
      Participant

      You need a camera that you can shoot high frame rates for super slow motion. The Sony FS-700U can shoot at  960 frames per second but is priced at $7499.00 without a lens.   What you may want to do is rent one for a couple of days. 

    • #207243
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      Hi Ben,

           Cville is right in that you need a camera that can shoot high frame rates.  But it also depends on how slow you want it.  For under $2000, you can get a Sony HXR-NX30U, which can shoot at 60 progressive frames per second.  You can play that at 40% speed and still have 24p video.  If 40% is slow enough for you, then the NX30U would be a good camera for you.

    • #207252
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Thank you for the info Cville and MCRockett.I'll have to compare the Casio EX-ZR1000 to the Sony HXR-NX30U.                                                                                                                                    Any other help will be greatly appreciated.                                                                                        Thanks Again, BB

    • #207284
      Avatardstarks
      Member

      What about a point and shoot like the Nikon 1J2? http://www.videomaker.com/article/15855-nikon-1-j2-compact-camera-review

      Shoots at a tiny frame size but could work for what you're using it for?
      -3D

    • #207548
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Thank you for the replies.

       

      So far, I think the Casio EX-ZR1000 is the way to go.

      Problem is that it's not readily available in the USA market, and most of the auction websites ship them from Japan with Japanese Manuals.

       

      Still searching…

       

      BigBen

       

       

       

    • #207808
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Hi All,

      I went and ordered the Casio.

       

      Now I need to ask:

      How difficult is it, to have 2 playbacks showing at the same time, on Split-Screen?

      I'm thinking of recording with 2 separate cameras (different angles), and playing them back simultaneously on split screen.

       

      What's the easiest/smartest way to accomplish this?

       

       

      Thanks Again,

      BigBen

       

       

       

    • #207817
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      Depending on your NLE, not difficult at all. Which NLE are you using?

    • #207825
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      I have no idea what the acronym NLE stands for.  LOL…

       

    • #207827
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      Your NLE is your non-linear editing software. Are you using Vegas, Premier, Final Cut Pro, etc.? What software do you use to edit video?

    • #207828
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Hi Mcrockett,

      Other than using a standard cam-corder many many years ago, and a few videos of dice tosses with a simple camera, this'll be my first attempt at video.

      especially in slow-motion.

       

      So this is all new to me.

       

       

       

       

    • #207831
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      Oh, cool. An easy NLE to learn is Sony Vegas. You have a timeline, and everything is drag-and-drop. You can get the pro version starting at $399, or a home version for around $100. Basically, you can put the video from one angle on one video track in the timeline, and then the video from the other angle on a seperate video track in the same place on the timeline.  Then you can zoom out on the first video track so that the video from that track is only taking up part of the space of the screen, and then do the same on the other video track.  From there, you have 2 seperate videos, both zoomed out so that they are each only taking up part of the screen.  You can then position them, so that perhaps one video will be in the upper left corner of the screen, and the other is in the bottom right, or something like that.

       

      As far as slow motion, the EX-ZR1000 does not record at a very hight frame rate.  It only records at 30 frames per second (FPS), which is not very good for slow motion.  If you record at 30 FPS and then slow it down, it will not be very smooth.  For smooth video in any case, you want at least 24 FPS.  That was why I was recommending the Sony HXR-NX30u or similar.  It will record at 60 FPS, which you can play at 40% speed, and still have 24 FPS.  Obviously, the higher the frame rate in which you can record, the better, but you start paying a lot more for camera's that record north of 60 FPS.

    • #207838
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Thanks for all of this info., Mcrockett.I'll look for that program.                                                       Here are the EX-ZR1000's Specs that I got from the Casio website:

      Number of Recorded PixelsStill Images16M (4608 x 3456), 3:2 (4608 x 3072), 16:9 (4608 x 2592), 10M (3648 x 2736), 5M (2560 x 1920), 3M (2048 x 1536), VGA (640 x 480)
      MoviesFHD:1920×1080 (30fps) / HD*3:1280×720 (15fps/20fps/30fps) / STD: 640×480 (30fps) / HS1000:224 x64 (1000fps) / HS 480 : 224×160 (480fps) / HS 240 : 512×384(240fps) / HS 120 : 640×480 (120fps) /HS 30-240 : 512×384 (30 to 240fps) / HS 30-120 : 640×480 (30 to 120fps)
    • #207839
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      You're very welcome.

       

      I see the specs that you posted, and yes, in some instances it will shoot up to 1000 FPS.  However, look at the resolutions of the modes that shoot up to 1000 FPS.  The highest resolution at anything above 30 FPS is 640×480.  Current high-definition resolution is 1920×1080.  640×480 is standard definition, and will look somewhat poor and grainy on today's TVs.  The problem with the EX-ZR1000 is that it is a point-and-shoot camera with some video capability, and not an actual video camera.  So I don't think that you're going to get the results with it that you're looking for.  I'm sorry to be negative about it, but I'm just trying to give you as much information as I can to help you make your video project a success.

    • #207853
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Thank you for the additional information.

      The videos I've seen with the Casio, actually do look good enough for what I'm looking for.

       

    • #207855
      Avatarmcrockett
      Member

      Oh, so you've been able to sample what the Casio can do.  That's good.  Well, if that quality of video will work for you, then good choice.  Definitely less costly than the Sony, or most other camcorders for that matter.  Good luck to you.  If you need any other info, feel free to reply again to this post.

    • #207863
      AvatarBigBen
      Participant

      Yea, I figured I'd give this a shot first, and I could always add that awesome Sony model to my tool box too.  🙂

       

      Thanks Again,

      BB

       

    • #71105693
      AvatarAngly
      Participant

      oh, that’s very easy.

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