Choosing a camera + audio drift

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    • #85685

      Hello, it's my first post here. I m not a professional videographer and I'm not sure I'm posting in the right section but here goes. I produce music instructional videos and music/audio is really more my specialty. Everything that I've learned how to do on video was pretty much learned on the job. I definitely have my workflow and have been doing it for 5 years now, but even then, i'm definitely still a beginner and therefore, i ask for forgiveness in advance for what may appear to be really dumb questions..


      My  questions are somewhat related. I've been using 2 1000$ sony HD that I bought 5 years ago when I started my business, I forget the model name. I feel that I'll soon be ready to upgrade my gear. 


      Since I'm always working in a studio environment with consistent lighting; I'm not looking for the holy grail of video quality, but it would be interesting to have something better. I'm hoping for something in the below 1500$ price range (preferably 1000$). I'm looking to get two cameras actually since I deal with multicam setups. However, I was wondering if I might be able to keep my two sony cams and just get one high quality pro cam (in which case my budget can be roughly 2500$) . The reason for this is because my second cam is usually a tiny crop of the hands (see video below).



      If I get a significantly higher quality camera , do i have to make sure certain video settings are compatible between my old one and the new one so that it syncs up correctly? I'm sorry if this is a stupid question… For example, let's assume that i'm shooting in 4k with my new fancy camera, but i'm also using my old 1080p HD cam to focus on just the right hand like my video above. What do i need to do for optimal quality between the two? Does the 4k cam have to be set to 1080p to match the old cam? I've never had to deal with anything like this because my current cams are identical. 


      i have heard of DSLR cameras for shooting videos, and i'm quite impressed with some of the video qualities that i've seen, but i've read up on the topic, and unless i'm mistaken, it appears that the vast majority can only handle limited times per session and that they're prone to heating. This is an issue for me because when i produce these videos, i work on a very tight schedule. Usually filming sessions last 6-10 hours a day. My workflow is that I shoot one hour per clip. Obviously if there's a time limit on DSLR, i would have to work around said time limit, which i'd rather not. And the idea of the camera getting hot seems scary considering the length of my recording sessions.


      I have been looking at the black magic cinema cams, but one review i found left me a bit perplexed, something aobut not being able to delete clips from the camera, which is generally a nono for me. is that the case for all models or just a specific model?


      Last but not least, i record audio and video separately. I find that because of the lengthy clips, there is a risk of audio / video drift. It's not a huge deal, as i can usually cut the audio chunks at certain moments and displace them… but is there any hardware gear right off the bat that allows me to just get things right from the start.. i know in the world of audio there is word clock, but i can't seem to find any info on the net about perfect audio/video sync


      thanks folks!





    • #212390

      Hi misterdmmc – I think your current setup looks great at 1080p, but if you want to upgrade, you should be able to use a single 4K camera, duplicate the footage in 4K, downres the original to 1080p, crop the hands on the duplicate track to 1080p, and then insert the cropped image in the upper right corner of the original.


      At your price point, I recommend the 4K Panasonic GH4 DSLM for $1649 (body only).  It can record for hours continuously without overheating or shutting down. DSLRs shut down and have to be restarted every 30 minutes (it's a software limitation, not overheating).


      With a $297 Kipon Autofocusing EF to MFT adapter, you will have your choice of high quality Canon mount lenses.  I recommed this $429.90 Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 to get started.  It will give you good indoor performance and keep you under your $2500 budget limit.


      Here is what the GH4 can do (intercut with a $1999 Sony PXW-X70 camcorder for the wide angle shots) in a solo guitar setting:





      Shot with the GH4 and the Tokina 11-16mm (please ignore the audio, it was recorded with the internal mic):





      Here are a couple of examples of cropping 4K to 1080p:





      And here are a couple of studio music videos shot with the GH4 – a little different from what you're doing, but shows what the camera is capable of:







      I own this camera.  In my view, it is the best 4K video camera you can buy in this price class.


      Hope this is helpful and good luck!



      Hybrid Camera Revolution



    • #212395



      Not sure why you need 4k for this.  Since you show the fingers I think it is more important to show the vid in 60p. 


      4k with 60p is very expensive.


    • #212399

      I work doing live performance recordings but have managed to do this using two DSLRs A Canon EOS550 and a Canon EOS70D.  I use the latter as my primary camera and just have to stop and restart it before the automatic shutdown at 30 minutes.  The first camera runs a firmware load called MagicLantern.  This detects the point where the camera shuts down and restarts it with a gap of one or two seconds.    I also have a Canon HF-M300 camcorder than can record for 5 hours but the video quality isn't up to that of the DLSRs.  After an hour or so of operation the temp warning comes on for the D550 but it has only shut down on me when recording in the sun in the summer.

      For your situation one of the 4K camcorders like the one recommended above is probably the best choice particularly if you really will deliver 4K edited recordings.  


      You don't have to downres the 4K files as most current NLEs can use mixed resolution files.  As long as your second camera image doesn't take up more than 50% of the height of the 4K frame you should be fine.


      As for audio drift I haven't seen it on either of the two cameras or with my ZoomH4n audio recorder.  I do see it with the Tascam DR-40 which has a timebase .01% different than the cameras or Zoom recorder.  

    • #212402

      thanks very much for the replies! i will look into those cameras.. it's true i don't have need for 4k at the moment, it would be more an investment for the future. At any rate, i definitely need to use a second camera because the angle is not the same, so i can't just zoom in and crop.


      As you guys see in my example above, the second crop takes up a small amount of space in the screen… if i can easily use mixed resolution files, then i guess i'll just invest in a good primary cam… The point about 60p is very valid too. I'm not sure if my current cameras do 60p, but let's say i shoot 60p with my new main cam, and i use the secondary cam in 24p , will there be a compatibility issue on that end when syncing both cams??? Thanks


      re: audio drift , so it seems there's no real hardware way to get perfect sync from the start? i have a fancy setup for my audio and i record direct to my computer. The drift doesn't always happen, but if it does it happens because my clips last 60-75minutes.. if there's no other solution than correcting the sync at every 10mn interval, it's fine.


      thanks! anymore comments would be appreciated!

    • #212403



      Mixing different framerates is not impossible but not perfect as you would need some kind of blending to match the frames.  However luckily 24p and 30i do can be matched when you telecine the 24 to 30i.  And  30i or 30p can be easily framedoubled to become 60p. 


      I think there would definitly be an advantage to use 60p for the finger action.


      Wrt audio drift I assume you record 96/24, in that case you can time stretch the audio a tiny bit without audible consequences.


    • #212412

      i record at 24 bit 48k


      thanks for the advice! will look into all this

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