May 9, 2010 at 5:25 AM #43221Grinner HesterParticipant
When the internet began, I started hoppin?? on forums. We called em newsgroups back in the olden daze.
I have found great value in video pros bouncing off one another and have even scored a gig or two as result of interacting online as a host, moderator, and participant on various online video forums. After literal decades of this, I have run into the internet commando I cannot quite put my finger on. The fella that envies and reacts with anger. You know the one. I hate you! Youre wrong! Liar!Hes the guy in his Moms basement wishing he could be you one day, and secretly knowing he cant.
But why the anger? I do get envy. I felt it in my younger days. The difference is when I felt envy, I strived for what I envied so I got it deleting the envy. Is that hard today? I know for a fact it is not. I??m 40. I??ve been in this business for more than half of my life and I learn something new every day. Mad? Freakin; never! No really. I look up to those I envy. I aspire to accomplish what they have and the next step I take is to, well, accomplish it. Easy? I guess for only the capable. It always has been for me, anyway. If that makes me capable, sweet. I see it as refusing fail. I don??t like failure. I guess I am learning at a late age that I don??t like failures either. Ego makes man ugly. I surely hope opinion does not. </span>
<span style=”font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 7.5pt;”>B-roll,net, videouniversity.com, dvxusers.com? Chiiiiiiiillll, man. Really. Don’t take yourself so seriously. We’re only trying to help you get to the next level.</span>
May 9, 2010 at 6:50 AM #181146DarylParticipant
I have a guy like that on another forum all his post are negative and angry especially about the product drives me crazy I have gotten to where when I see his post I do not open that post. Why is he like that I think it is because of his own incompetence he has trouble with his software when no one else does yet the troubles he is having is never his own fault but the software he can get super angry.
May 9, 2010 at 1:11 PM #181147RobParticipant
Hmm….i don’t think I have an answer to why someone would always be angry specifically on a forum, but I certainly can see why some people, especially younger people, would be angry and frustrated in this industry.
To use myself as an example, at my last gig I was hired as a general post production assistant, along with about 5 other kids, for a production company doing something for History. It was WWII in HD actually…you may have seen it. Anyway, after a little while everyone noticed I was real good with FCP, so I sorta became the go-to guy when any problems came up in FCP. They also trusted me when it came to hands-on stuff with equipment.
But after about a month and a half, they suddenly made this one girl an assistant editor. I thought to myself, “Really?! She can’t do much more than open Final Cut, and all she talks about was how much she partied in college. Oh well, no big deal. She’s a nice girl anyway.”
Then about two weeks later they made this same girl ASSOCIATE PRODUCER and let another girl be an assistant editor. She, too ,didn’t know much about FCP and whenever I walked past her computer she was looking at websites to fashion magazines.
To say I was pissed would be an understatement. I was F*****G FURIOUS, and everyone sensed it too. The post production supervisor even pulled me aside (while I was still furious) to try to talk to me and I just completely lost my cool.
So why do some people always seem angry? Why did I get angry? I made the conscious decision in college that I’d be sacrificing my social life so that I could learn as much as I could about video. I wanted to be the best. I read everything. I literally spent entire days with my face buried in CreativeCow. When it came time to make a video in school, I went above and beyond and made kick ass videos. I put in the time. I put in the energy. And there are A LOT of other people who do the same.
So can you blame me or any of the other hard working people for being pissed when we watch, not just anybody, but less capable people advance past you? What’s worse is you get labeled as having a bad attitude when you get pissed. “Oh this punk kid thinks he’s entitled to a position.” Hey, I understand no one is strait up entitled to a position in this industry, but I certainly feel I’m more entitled THAN OTHER PEOPLE. Big difference.
I should add that while I interviewed for this gig, I had to take a test and I got every question right. These girls…they didn’t have to take a test, and i know they would not have done as well if they did.
So now it’s 7 months later and everything seemed to work out for the best in the end. I beat out over 140 for my current job which pays really well, and I can continue learning something new every day because of this job. But am I still pissed about what happened 7 months ago. HELL YES.
I’ve read posts from the COW leaders on CreativeCOW about how they worked under someone for number of years. And that someone sort of took them under their wing, so they didn’t mind doing it for low pay. Well that isn’t an option today. Food is more expensive, bills are more expensive, finding a job costs money, and if they never get that job they still have to pay for these OUTRAGEOUS school loans.
It just sucks right now for those trying to get in, and I think their anger and frustration may be rubbing off everywhere.
May 9, 2010 at 7:00 PM #181148EarlCMember
With age, occasionally, comes maturity. You cannot always control how others react to you, but you can control how you react to others. ALSO, keep in mind it could be something to do with hormones, the person’s endocrine system or even diabetes. 😉
May 10, 2010 at 1:15 AM #181149composite1Member
“But why the anger?”
To paraphrase Yoda, “Hatin’ easy it is.” Why on earth should you take the time to improve your skills when it’s sooo much easier to browbeat someone else. I do understand where ‘hatin” comes from. I too have been in Rob’s place where over and over I made sure my name high on the list of ‘go to people’ and watched how other people who were not putting out nearly the same effort or showed a similar level of knowledge/skill move up while I didn’t. Even when it came down to finally every finger pointed to me directly when it came time to move the next person up the answer was still ‘no’. I took the hint and moved on.
When I struck out on my own, I had a Reel most pro’s at the time would have taken a decade or more to acquire and I possessed the skills and experience to back it up. I got calls from large and small production companies from Hollywood to Corporate Houses. I would always make the final cut but when it came down to me and another person again the answer was ‘no’. I couldn’t figure it out and then one day I sat down with a career specialist to help me hammer out yet another resume’ revision and he just came out and said, “Man, people see your resume’ and it scares the $*&&%! out of them. On paper they see a guy who could in a year could take their job. Who would have the nerve to hire someone like that?” I took the hint and did what in the back of my mind was the inevitable solution and started my own outfit.
Years later, a young guy who’s worked with me on a number of projects out of the clear blue said, “I don’t understand it. I’ve learned and done more working for you in such a short time. Nobody else would’ve ever been so free with the knowledge and opportunities you’ve given all of us. Why do you do it?” My answer was, “Because I’m not afraid of you being better than me. If I can’t still hold my own after teaching you what I know at this point, then I suck.”
I see all the time how these young guys seem to just roll into this biz and ‘blow up’ with just one half-assed thing they came up with. But then I recognize that more often than not, they had parents who fronted the cash for them to get gear and training at an early age. Many of those parents are already networked and can get those guys connected with the right people that can put them where they need to be to ‘blow up’. Rarely does some joker just off the turnip truck fall on a camera and make the next ‘big’ thing. Even movies and videos that are obvious crap still had time and effort put into making them. There’s just no getting around that. Sitting around hating and being angry isn’t going to make anything happen for you. You have to put that energy into your training and work.
A Martial Arts instructor watched his student get soundly beaten in a sparring match. The student had fought with poor form and unsuccessfully used tricks to in order to win against a superior opponent. The instructor called the student aside and then drew two lines in the sand one longer than the other. Pointing at the short line the instructor said, “This is your line. How would you make your opponent’s line shorter?” The student immediately said, “Cut it in half.” Shaking his head the instructor replied, “There’s a much easier way.” In one stroke the instructor made the shorter line longer than the other.
The first time I read that I got what it meant; if you want to be better than the other guy, ‘make your line longer’. Of course that meant I had to train more and increase my knowledge. I quickly found that applied to everything I wanted to do. Side effect of that is; people are going to hate you for ‘makin’ your line longer than theirs’. I say, let ’em hate. Maybe I’ll notice them when I look in the rear view mirror while I’m bustin’ my ass makin’ this frickin’ line longer.
May 10, 2010 at 4:35 AM #181150BruceMolParticipant
Come on now, I know some of you worked for large companies – even the military; the epitome of large companies. I’ve been the boss and tried not to be boss like, but the sad fact is, when you need to promote someone, you don’t ask yourself who is the most gifted, you ask yourself who will be able to get along, which of them will be able to work with others. Some bosses look for people who will do what they are told. I’ll refrain from the team sport analogy because it is so limiting in business but I will say that it is personal, not technical, skills that bosses look for. Their rational is the same now as it was when I was being ‘groomed.’ “Anyone,” (of your bright candidates) “can learn the technical skills – just send them to a course.” Most large corps are OK with mediocre results.
It took me a while to catch on, I admit that; and I don’t think I’m being pessimistic. Large corps just cannot have a bunch of individuals without a structure that supports individualism – and setting that up is harder than you think. I’ve been ‘let go’ from my fair share of organizations and I’ve left a few because of differences in opinion. I figure that “Hatin’ people’ are coming to grips with a certain reality, about themselves.
Some companies have taken the time/energy/money to support creative individuals but I’m afraid most have not. Difficult as it is, financially, I prefer to work for myself. I do miss the camaraderie, and I’m not saying that contracts I bid on are all fairly assessed – I mean, office politics is everywhere – what I don’t miss are the seemingly random decisions about due dates, work schedules and all the lame terminology about ‘buy in,’ ‘grass roots appeal,’ ‘stakeholders,’ and ‘deliverables.’ I realized after reading a book by Michael Gerber (E-Myth and a couple similar others) that I had made the classic ‘project worker’ mistake of thinking that just because I was good at something I could make it my business. Another mistake I made was thinking people would appreciate what I do and want to work with me. I was wrong about thinking going independent was easy and that people I had worked with would send stuff my way. But I wasn’t wrong about leaving ’employee-ness’ behind.
I’m pretty easy going and perhaps too much so. I don’t flames forums, nor do I find it amusing when someone does. I can barely handle Grinners flippant remarks sometimes because I don’t know if he is taking a jab at someone. So easy going I don’t even wonder about Hatin people, just another ‘whatever…’ in my books. However, if someone followed me from forum to forum cross posting to everything I wrote i really don’t know what I’d do but ask for advice because, really, it is strange to have that kind of hate. Envy is just a guess – maybe even a good guess. I don’t think it’s a safe assumption that envy creates hate. You know that ‘grumpy old men’ saying? (That they are a product of ‘grumpy young men.’) Well, people who HATE are pretty much opposite to the kind of person Grinner describes himself as. He forgot to say, about himself, that he is also driven by curiosity and discovery (or else he wouldn’t ahve posted). I have met some hateful people in my business career and I don’t think they hated me because they were envious of me, I think they hated me because, they realize they have lost their own creativity, curiosity and imagination. They are what they seem to be, dull. IMHO They hate themselves but they lack the skills to deal with their loss. The skills to deal with that loss are, coincidently, creativity, curiosity and imagination!
May 10, 2010 at 7:05 AM #181151Luis Maymi LopezParticipant
Since I decide to venture this industry it had been insanely hard, frustrating and several times I question if this is right for me. I’m in college right now, not actually studying anything video related (only took two introductory courses on film) so almost all I have learn have been by myself. The time people spend on Facebook I spend it on Videomaker and other web sites researching and increasing my knowledge. Thanks to some web sites which downloads are free, I had have access to professionals NLE and tutorials that I will never have the budget for it. I don’t like having pirate software, but is that or not eating for weeks. That the problem of this industry is insanely expensive to the newcomer and in my case I don’t have the right equipments. I have a consumer camcorder (I like to call it my “happycam”), a industrial light, home made reflectors, an audio interphase and a Macbook Pro. If someone tries to steal any of my equipment they will sure need to kill me for them. It have not been easy getting them, sometimes I had sacrifice lunch to save that money to buy some equipment. Do I post angry comments and insult people in forums because this is not easy? Do I post my anger when I don’t understand my software? Definitively NO. The people who post mean comments clearly have some issues and lack of personal authority. You are getting post from pro’s and from people who had years of experience so you should be thankful.
I will like to share an experience I had on a business meeting. It was a meeting were people share their ideas so the business owners give you advise or point you to investors. I presented my idea of doing a web show which it will promote the culture of my people. It was like I never presented anything, it felt like I didn’t exist to them. That was the first time in my life that I felt such an anger, a lot of hate towards them and a frustration so bad that I wanted to disappear. Turns out this business type people need something they can potentially sell, they don’t see video as potential income so it automatically don’t work. I also try submitting my idea to a business competition, but once again investors don’t see it working. So this particular project have been my ambition for months and I will work with all my might to produce at least one season. I probably will not make any money out of it (I don’t really care) but at least I hope it will make my audience happy. One of the things that came up in all this hate and frustrating experience was a story of my very own serial killer. I don’t like coming up with extra mean characters, but all my hate and anger from that day is express in that particular character, not on any forum.
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