Why is Final Cut so popular?

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    • #46582
      Avatarrogerb1
      Participant

      Vegas is fast, Premiere is almost as easy to use. I find Final Cut TOO different. So, why is it so popular? Just wondering.
      Roger

      PS I have Final Cut Express HD 3.5 and really don’t care for it very much. I am trying to do a project with it now and even getting a simple transition to work is a drag. What’s up with that program? PSS I have tried to use this for 6 months. Still having problems getting used to it.

      Sorry for the rant.

    • #191963
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      Here is my thought. Take it for what you will.

      I just bought FCP Studios about 2 months ago. Now to preface, I have been a Windows (and Win app user) my whole life. I know all the keyboard shortcuts for the OS. When it comes to the editing software they are all basically the same.

      I bought my first MAC Pro (powerful and all bells and whistles). To be honest, it was like learning to walk all over again.

      BUT…

      Once I got the hang of the basic commands on this comuter vs the Windows I was okay. For example:
      Windows Copy = Ctrl C Paste = Ctrl V
      MAC Copy = Command C Paste = Command V

      Obviously there are many more but, once I learned what was what, I have found that FCP is very similar to most of the Wintel apps like Adobe Premiere Pro etc.

      I think it just all comes down to the differences in the Operating system key strokes, not the applications.

    • #191964
      AvatarSpencerStewart
      Participant

      apple computers have a fair history editing video as well… just a note

    • #191965
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      Spencer Stewart Wrote:

      apple computers have a fair history editing video as well… just a note

      I agree 100%. That is why I bought the MAC in the first place. Stability and speed and reputation and I have not been disappointed yet.

    • #191966
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Hello everyone.

      I was a full time PC user as well but Ive been sober now for just over a year after seeking the help of Mac. (clapping – thank you, thank you very much)

      I converted cause I simply couldent keep the pc running!!

      loved Premiere Pro 2.0. It was fast simle and I had the add ons like After Effects whcih I was just getting used to.

      MAc OS is based on the Linux OS. its far simpler than the OS for XP – Im not a programmer but Ive heard quotes like 10x less code to make it run! therefore 10 times less vulnerabilities — look at it this way, the CIA uses LINUX for thier servers – must be a reason for it?

      I bought a mac pro – they are liquid cooled and very quiet – Ive maybe had ONE lock up in a year whereas I maybe had the PC actually RUNNING once in a year!

      most of the time it was vacationing in the PC shop – to the point where the shop threatend to charge me rentl storage on top of the diagnostics!

      Now there is a Permeire for mac – Adobe was originally backing mac, strayed for a while but now they are back. I havent tried Premiere on Mac but taht sounds like a good sandwich!

      so for now Im using Final Cut Studio and I have Shake and motion as well for effects.

      once you go mac, yu’ll never go back.

    • #191967
      AvatarRyan3078
      Participant

      I have a PC at home for editing and use an iMac at school with FCE HD and After Effects. I’ve just never really gotten into the Mac since it seems to take longer to render. That, plus a mouse with no right click drives me mad!

      I’ve used both, and it’s really easier to use depending on what system you grow up on.

    • #191968
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      I read peoples responses about using FC Express and how different it is compared to the rest.

      Here are my thoughts on that. FCE is like all the other consumer grade video editing softwares out there. In my experience it is nothing like the professional version. I’ve used all of the consumer grade and to me none of them are like the pro versions. Personally I find them much more difficult to use than the pro versions. SO I don’t think those are very good representations of the pro versions. I find FC Pro much easier to use.

    • #191969
      Avatarralck
      Participant

      I’ve not really understood why Final Cut is popular either. I guess I’m sort of opposite of most people. I never have a problem with my PC (It never crashes or screws up), yet when I try to use a mac (some of my school’s labs are macs: the new ones that have all the upgrades too), I always have a lot of problems. For some reason macs always crash with me; I don’t know why… it could just be that I’m used to a different interface so I’m doing something wrong? Of course people that are more comfortable with a mac probably have as good success as I do with a PC.

      Anywho, I’m not a big fan of Final Cut myself. I’ve tried it and it’s okay, but I think I like some of the other programs better. And to be completely honest, I don’t like that it’s only on one platform. With something like Avid or Adobe, I can work on it on a PC, transfer the project to a mac and continue working on it instead of being forced to only use macs (What if I only had access to the PC computer labs on campus?).

      My guess of why it would be so popular is because of the reputation mac has gained in the editing world along with some funny (although usually untrue or largely exaggerated) commercials.

      In any case, the big editing software will get the same job done no matter which program you use or what OS you run it on. I’m a fan of choosing the platform your most comfortable with (for me, PC) which is why I’ll stick to other editing programs.

      PS: OSX is based on BSD, not Linux. BSD is similar to Linux, but there are some major differences.

    • #191970
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      BSD is UNIX which what linux is based on.

      BSD is more powerful than linux with less instructions.

    • #191971
      AvatarchrisColorado
      Participant

      I also don’t like Final Cut and I hate Macs. Vegas and PCs for me. There is also Adobe stuff that won’t run on Macs.

      I don’t know, PCs make more sense to me. Two button mouse and no command key. I like it.

    • #191972
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      Actually Macs DO use a 2/3/& even 4 button mouses. Which ever you prefer to have.

      I vary my usage between a 1 & 2 button depending on my mood.

      The original question of this post is: why is FCP so popular.

      I don’t think it’s that it is so popular, I think that MAC’s have always been know for their extraordinayprocessing capabilities and reputaion for reliability. You will have to admit that PC’s crash, ALOT. MAC’s don’t.

      Many Many movie studios use MACs to edit their videos. I have watched ILM DVD extras, Michael Bay and many other directors and production studios. Most of my observations come from DVD extras, interview, etc. ALL of them will demonstrate with their handy dandy 4 screen MAC. With FCP.

      I think that since they have always used the MAC and FCP, they just continue to use it because it has always been reliable for them. And I know from experience that Editors are more efficient with software they are comfortable with. So why change.

      I changed to MAC because I have constantly . . . CONSTANTLY had trouble with EVERY editing application (Adobe Pro and Consumer – Pinnacle Pro & Consumer – SOny Pro & Consumer) I have ever loaded on my computer. I know it is not the Software necessarily but the Windows computer crashed more times than it was actually working. I just wanted something more stable.

      Since I’ve switch, Nearly 1 year ago, I have had No problems . . . NONE. Not one crash and no lost information or files.

      Like I said in a previous post on this topic, Once I learned the basic commands, I found the FCP was almost exactly the same as all the other pro editing apps. Adobe CS3 is available for MACs if that’s what you like, but you are going to run into the same problems with the key stroke.

      If you use CS3 on a PC then switch to a MAC, you WILL have to reaclimate yourself to the new keystroke.

      In conclusion, It’s all personal preference. I don’t think it is necessarily the FCP that is preferable is the Computer (MAC), and FCP just happens to be the native NLE.

    • #191973
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I will have to say that FCP has a deep market base, and most people know about it. I don’t edit on a MAC. I have a stable PC, always have had stable PC’s. You have to know how to properly maintain them. I use Sony Vegas Pro 8, and I’ve only experienced 2 lockups in the entire time I’ve used it. Both times were my fault. I’veedited on earlier versions of Vegas, really, no issues to speak of. I looked at Adobe products as well, yeah integration is nice, but to darn expensive. And I constantly hear about issues with those products. I am in business to make money. I’ve never had a job turned down because I don’t use FCP or AVID, basically I produce a product, and as long as it meets the client’s needs, they don’t care what it was cut on and they don’t need to know either.

      John

    • #191974
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      I agree with that exactly.

      In my opinion, It all comes down to what you are comfortable with. THe client won’t know any better what you use.

    • #191975
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      Maaan, I can’t stand when people complain about the one-button Apple mouse. I agree, the mighty mouse is a piece of crap, but luckily I live in America, and I get to choose which mouse I want to use! And you can tooooo! Hahaha.

      Seriously, why are PC lovers under the impression that if you buy a Mac, you’re stuck with a one-button mouse. They should be more worried about the fact that if they get a PC, they’re stuck messing around with viruses rather than their project…or myspace.

      And has anyone seen that video on youtube of Bill Gates talking about Vista and it’s new features? The interviewer says something along the lines of, “it seems a lot of this is already seen in Apple’s OS.” And Gates is all like, “No no, it has blah blah blah…” And in the CUs of the computer screen, all you see are ripped off Mac features. It’s hilarious. And what’s with the web browser?! I was on my grandmom new PC that she was psyched about and it has a 19in screen. When I looked at it I couldn’t figure out why it looked so tiny though. (Granted, I have a 23in screen) But then I realized it! THE TOOL BAR IN THE WEB BROWSER TAKES UP HALF THE SCREEN! Who needs all that crap?

      Anyway, this thread was about Final Cut. At my college it’s actually seems that they teach FCP more than Avid. They don’t even teach Premiere; however, we have that as well. All the kids say FCP is easier to learn. I understand if you’ve learned one NLE first, going to any other program will be difficult. I have used Premier and found that it wasn’t really that hard to get used to, so I don’t see why it would be hard vice versa. Avid? It’s just ass backwards and will fade out. All the people who say it won’t, are wrong. What’s the industry going to do when all the kids in school now reach graduation? They all know FCP and everyone hates Avid.

      Basically, FCP is easy to learn for beginners and I’d be willing to bet if someone went from Premiere to FCP, it wouldn’t be too difficult either. Not to mention you get everything you need to make a damn good video in the Final Cut Studio Bundle. I’ve had it since the end of Summer and I couldn’t be more pleased. Soundtrack has fixed some absolutely rediculous sound problems that I’ve encountered from brain dead camera ops. Color is an AMAZING color grading program as well. And of course Final Cut lives up to it’s name.

      Apple just give the videomakers on a low budget a HUGE tool that evens the playing field at a price where you’d think Apple is getting ripped off. That’s what I think. I’d totally put up with a one button mouse so I could enjoy Final Cut Studio.

    • #191976
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      Amen! my brother

    • #191977
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      Hey RogerB1,

      It’s funny that you mention that adding a simple transition is a drag because all you have to do is go to the effects tab in the bin, go to the video transitions menu, and then drag it to the cut. Ha…you’re right. It’s literally a drag. Atleast, you can do that in Final Cut Studio.

      You can also set default transitions and set the duration so that when you right click on a cut, you have a quick menu to select your commonly used transition. I prefer a 10f cross dissolve.

    • #191978
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Hi, new member here. After all the research that I have done on editing/importing and exporting and being a PC user for over 20 years, I have put down the cash to buy the iMAC 3.06ghz and 24″ monitor and Final Cut Pro, as it seems that this is the best you can get for less then $4,000. I have been doing PC editing of video and now I am getting real business in editing, so I made the plunge. This was also after reviewing video cameras, both consumer and prosumer,I decided that this system should be the best going forward. Adobe appears tonot support the AVCHD format that left out Premiere Pro. So I am betting my government rebate on the iMAC.

    • #191979
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      A little history lesson for you young guys.

      I remember when the desktop editing movement began. While Avid had been the professional turnkey standard for a long time. Premiere (Not Premiere Pro then) was the first under 5K desktop editing system. Final Cut Pro was considerably later, but was able to jump ahead of Premiere and other systems by offering things like camera control via firewire and rt effects. Combine the application features with the fact that Apple made the hardware as well and they had the best desktop editing system at the time. Combine this with really, really good marketing and they were able to position themselves for the independent film and later hd markets. Adobe had to completely scrap there applicatioin and rebuild it from scratch to really create a product that could compete with Final Cut. Now I tend to think that FCP and PP are almost the same program, they share similar keyboard commands and workflows. There are differences in the way they each want you to work with clips and the timeline and alot of differences behind the scenes but if you know one you can pretty quickly learn the other. I always suggest to my students that they learn at least two of the three (Avid, FCP, or PP) to be competitive.

      There are differences in the way macs and pcs work but the one button mouse compliant is silly. The mac has accepted two buttons and more on mice since OSX. Apple’s mighty mouse takes a little getting used to but if you don’t like it go and buy any 3-button usb mouse. The mouse I use on my mac is made by Microsoft.

    • #191980
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      Another thing, some folks are just proud of their editors. Kinda like no matter what motorcycle you buy, when you tell a friend they all ask, “Is it a Harley?” It’s a name.

      It depends on what you learned on and what you are comfortable with too. There are die-hard (insert NLE brand here) users who will argue the finer points of their editor. It all comes down to what you like and feel comfortable with.

      Harley makes a fine bike, so does Yamaha and Honda. But in the end we are all just riders. If (insert NLE brand here) gets your motor running, ride it like you stole it! πŸ˜‰

      J.

    • #191981
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I’ve been using the pro version of Vegas on my home computer for about 3 years. Last week we got a Mac editing station (with FCP) at work. The thing looks amazing. Not quite as simple to use as my Vegas…… but Wow! By comparison to my home system, this Mac/FCP system looks…… well, it looks sexy. I don’t know how else to put it. As far as overall editing power, I’m sure it would beat my home system, but then it costs over 10 times what my system costs. I’m still happy with Vegas. (And I wonder how it would compare with the MAC/FCP system at work if I tricked out a PC/Vegas system at about half the cost of the one at work.) BTW, Vegas seems more self-contained than FCP; Don’t need to buy plug-ins to do things. I’ve noticed that Mac users seem very happy with their systems, and that’s worth something. 😎

      Ken

    • #191982
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I’ve been a PC user for … ever. I’ve been using Vegas Movie Studio Plat. for a while now. I even bought Cinescore. I really like Vegas and it has never failed me. Recently I’ve been asked to do some professional work and the firm that I now work with is politely requesting that I make the switch to FCP and, of course, Mac. I have been terribly torn. While I love the Vegas software, my more experienced video buddies have poo-pooed me for not switching to Mac and FCP. I finally closed my eyes, hit the throttle and pulled the trigger on a Mac book pro and FCP. It was painful financially, but after hearing you guys talk about not regretting making the switch, I’m hoping I made the right decision. At the end of the day, I have to ask myself, “Am I in this or not – do I go half way or do I go for it and step up to the next level. I’ve gone Mac because of VISTAs slack.

    • #191983
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      I agree with you on Vista. Vista was just a bad idea. It has more holes than a golf course. I recently purchased a new Dell and insisted on XP professional for this reason. So far I haven’t had any issues with XP.

      The OS is another thing to look at when deciding on your NLE. I know people who detest macs, and others who love it. And the same for PC’s. If you are a Mac guy then a PC program is not for you, and if you are a PC guy a switch to Mac could be a jolt. I understand where Fallingstarfilms is right now. It was a big step. He was happy with Vegas but it seems Vista made the choice for him, and a bit of corralling from his friends. The NLE wasn’t at fault, it was the platform it sits on.

      He could probably do anything he ever wanted to do with Vegas. He was comfortable with it. But the OS was unstable.

      This is why I have a big issue with Vista. Not only is it crap. But it has probably forced more people like fallingstarfilms to take chances and make changes. In time I’m sure he will become proficient with FCP, but his dilemma was unnecessary.

      I’m happy with XP and my NLE, but if/when I have to, I’d probably switch too.

      If “Windows” doesn’t get it’s act together soon, there may be a mad rush over to Mac. πŸ˜€

      J.

    • #191984
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      I hope there isn’t a big rush to mac from the consumers. I like being the cool kid on the block.

    • #191985
      BrianBrian
      Participant

      One word: MARKETING

      Apple is the BEST at marketing. Hollywood style marketing.

      If Apple announced they were selling Crap (or let’s call it iCrap) it would be a hit.

      Why?

      They actually don’t sell products. They sell an idea. “You’re more productive with iCrap around” You’re just cool with iCrap”

      People buy what other people have. If one million people buy iCrap more and more people would want it.

      They make something good greater they take something broken and fix it. They want to improve the world. For exampe, iCrap doesn’t smell and it’s shaped differently.

      They help customers help them. Does Sony Vegas have a cult following? is the cult following rewarded? The cult of iCrap can’t be beaten down.

      They make their messages unforgettable and memorable. Regular crap vs iCrap- I’m sure they would make iCrap the winner.

      They treat their customers like gold with surprise and delight. Ahh, iCrap you’re cool if you buy it today. We’ll reward you with a 2nd iCrap at half off.

      Did you know that Apple has a full-time person (Hollywood@apple.com) whose sole job was to get Apple products placed on primetime and Hollywood productions? For free? The only stipulation was that Apple product could not be used for negative gains – if you notice, the Mac is often used by the hero. Indiana Jones at his desk with iCrap translates into sales and movie producers don’t pay a cent for the prop.

      Their is a former Apple employee blog that tells all the secrets to their marketing success: http://www.marketingapple.com/

      Here’s another great read on the success of Apple and their products:

      http://www.insidecrm.com/features/strategies-apple-loyal-customers/

    • #191986
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      Yep. πŸ™‚

      It’s a name. There is a huge difference between customers & fans.

      J.

    • #191987
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      I say it’s popular ‘cuz it works.

      Windows is popular…explain that…hardly cool, and hardly functional.

    • #191988
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      A lot of Mac people seem to think that PCs are innately unstable. Most PCs are unstable because of the ignorance of their users. If you set up a PC with editing software, keep it off of the internet completely, don’t install stupid programs, and keep it defragged and clean, you will have no problems.

      I think that people are attracted to Macs and FCP because they can use their Mac as a internet computer and as an editing computer without problems. Don’t get me wrong: I think FCP is a great program.But you can get a lot more horsepower, storage, and peripherals for far less money when you build a PC than when you buy a Mac.

      All of this to say: I think a lot of people are legitimately attracted to Macs and FCP. But what I don’t likeis the fact thatPCs are stereotyped as being generically unstable and unreliable. This is not true. Also, this is not coming from someone who is a PC-only guy. I love PCs and Macs.

      Conclusion: I think that a lot of Mac users need to have their arrogance lowered andthat a lotof PC users need to smarten up with reference to their PCs and how they treat them.

      P.S. robgrauert, Avid is used to edit the majority of feature films, television shows, and commercials in the world. I don’t think I would call it ass-backwards. The Avid lineup includes some of the most powerful editing programs in the industry. Media Composer, Adrenaline, and Symphony Nitris are rock-solid programs that have very rigorous hardware requirements. All-in-all, Avid is the ruler of the video and film industry.

      Jeremy

    • #191989
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      I’m pretty sure the reason Avid is so major in the industry is because it was the first major NLE. Just because it’s still a major program, doesn’t mean it’s not ass backwards. I’ve actually used Avid. It’s retarded. Not only that, but to get all the bells and whistles of Avid, you have to spend a boat load of money. When you buy the Final Cut Studio bundle, you get everything you need at a very good price.

    • #191990
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I would agree with you. Moneywise, for the average videographer, Avid is overkill. However, for companies that have thousands to spend on editing software, and need powerful networking solutions integrated into the NLE, then Avid is great. I also have edited on very expensive Avid systems. It may appear to be retarded if it is running on a $2000 computer. But on a $10000 system, it is phenomenal.

    • #191991
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Alright I’ll bite, This posting is nearly full of ideas. Why is FCP so popular? Think about this. Apple has only 2% of the market place world wide. Yet, it’s neck and neck with pc in the video and graphic world. In the pc world there are dozens of softwares to choose from to do the same purpose. But, if you use a mac; only those who deify the default for something like Avid or Premier will there be anything other then FCP.

      So, in short. In the video world it is FCP vs. the dozen or so pc applications.

      PS I have worked on both Vegas and FCP for about the same amount of time. I’m still learning how to do anything in FCP but if I want to get a project done I use Vegas. The only reason why I continue to stay with FCP is because every one that I talk to says if you want a job in the industry then you have to learn FCP. I say to those devote FCP user. “You obviously haven’t worked with Vegas.” I just wish that Vegas would work on a steady platform like a mac.

      Oh, by the way. Macs do crash they just don’t head for the ditch like a pc. I can’t tell you how many times my mac has just frozen and I had to drive it into the ditch on purpose and reboot to get back on the road.

    • #191992
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      “Oh, by the way. Macs do crash they just don’t head for the ditch like a pc. I can’t tell you how many times my mac has just frozen and I had to drive it into the ditch on purpose and reboot to get back on the road.”

      I agree. I too am a Mac user and have had a Mac crash on me a few times; however my MacPro has been flawless. But anyway, i think people are under the impression that when we Mac users defend Mac, we are saying that they are perfect. Nothing is perfect, and everything has it’s flaws, and nothing lasts forever. It’s just that my experience with Macs has proven that they are rarely problematic, and if I do have a problem, it us often very simple to fix.

    • #191993
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      There is another reason why FCP is so popular.

      It is one hell of a good piece of software that fulfilled a need in the industry when it came out.

      The idea that has been expressed here that AVID or FCP are bad because some of the people on this forum who tried to pick them up and use them without taking a class or going through some kind of instruction had a problem is wrong. The person who described AVID as ass backwards because they didn’t understand the logic behind the work flow demonstrates the ego-centric nature of many computer users. These programs are not intuitive and probably can’t ever be, every professional level application that I have ever seen has a learning curve, every one of them. The more applications you know well the easier it tends to be to pick up new software that follows a similar design pattern. However, this can lead to problems when you try to learn something that is significantly different.

      If you leaned Vegas and then pick up FCP you will probably approach FCP expecting it to behave like Vegas does. This will inevietably lead to frustration. While some programs are very similar to each other (FCP and Premiere Pro being two examples) many are not. This doesn’t make a program “ass backwards” or “wrong”, it simply means that the logic and design behind them are different. Since many people on the forum think so highly of Vegas Pro, I downloaded the trial. Because of my background using FCP and PP, Vegas while pretty easy to figure out just seems off, since it doesn’t follow any of the standards that I have become used to for video editing applications. This doesn’t mean that Vegas is bad, just that it follows a different set rules for how I am expected to work in it.

    • #191994
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      This discusion intrigues me to wonder if there is a forum amoung farmers who argue over what tractors will harvest their fields best. Or, if contractors discuss which power tools they root for. We must have alot of time on our hands. I bet thebushmentribes of New Guinea don’t quiver over how to grow and cook their potatoes as much as they are just thankful to have something to eat.

      I spent a lot of time trying to figure out which computor to buy and based my finaldecision on a PC because there were so many more options and opportunities to use a PC. I was told that Macs were more expensive. That wasn’t true. Once I out fitted the hardwareto be able to do the job that editing video demands it cost about the same. Like comparing a Ferrari to a Civic. If you want a Civic to perform as well as a Ferrari then you have to modifiy it with some after market parts. Pretty soon you have spent as much money as you would have if you had just bought a Ferrari.

      I made a “pros and cons” list for why to buy a Mac or a PC and at the time there were so many softwares that will not work on a Mac. My computer unfortunatly was not going to be designated strickly for video editing and that meant everything included the cd-roms that came in my kids cereal box needed to be able to run on my computer. There are countless softwares like CAD like programs that cost less then $10 or even free that I was interested in but could not run them because there were no Mac compatible versions available.

      Thanks to all of you guys out there using forums and spending lots of time sharing your thoughts. I’ve concluded one thing. Those who own a PC are generally happy. Those who own a Mac are also generally happy. But, those who own both a PC and a Macseem to be the happiest. For there is little they can’t do.

    • #191995
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      With the new intel versions of Mac, isn’t it possible to run Windows on a MAC? I have a friend that actually runs Windows within the MAC environment.

      Does anyone know how to do this? This would certainly alleviate most of the PC hardware issues.

    • #191996
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      Brandon,

      There are several ways to run the windows OS (and therefore windows programs) on an Intel Mac.

      The latest Mac OS natively supports an application called bootcamp which can create a new partition on your mac harddrive and let you install a copy of Windows XP (I think Vista works also) on it. Once installed you can hold down the alt key at stat-up o choose which partition to boot into.

      There are also third party programs like Parallels that allow you to open the Windows OS at the same time the MacOS is running.

    • #191997
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      “(I think Vista works also)”….rumour has it…Vista….doesn’t work on ANYTHING!

      lol!

    • #191998
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      Why would you buy a Mac to run Windows anyway….

    • #191999
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      Rob,

      Two reasons I can think of:

      1-Because there are certain programs that some people may need that are Windows only. 3D application for example tend to be more readily available on the Windows platform. Of the three main ones (Maya, 3DStudioMax, SoftImage) only Maya has a Mac version.

      2-Because certain programs that are available for both run better on a PC than on a Mac

    • #192000
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      Don,

      I meant merely that you could try installing it.

      Getting it to run is between the user and god.

      lol

    • #192001
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      ROFL!!!!

    • #192002
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      I have been using Windows all my life. But for the past couple of years I have converted to MAC and love it. But like Jerronsmith said, there are some apps that only work on a PC. While I have a PC, I’d rather not have to go to the other computer, do what I need to do, then download it over the internet/external drive/magic or however I would do it.

      Really that is the only reason.

    • #192003
      Avatarblumantaray
      Participant

      Too many people have said it better than I coul, and in more technical terms, so I’ll just add that FCP has way more sex appeal than PP and Avid combined.

    • #192004
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      Blumantaray,

      But thats only marketing. Sex appeal has little to do with whether or not the product will do what you want it to do.

    • #192005
      Avataraburke3
      Participant

      Not long ago, video editing was not done on a desktop computer. I wonder how long it will take us to get back to that point?

      -AB

    • #192006
      AvatarEarlC
      Member

      The client (most of them anyway) simply does not care. You can build a house with a hammer and a handsaw, but who would want to.

      Another irony is that the vast majority of those who expound against one or the other have never used the other, nor seen one in operation.

      People who know their tools can make them sing regardless of the platform. It doesn’t matter! Period!

      I use Mac because I picked up one when it was a 512K machine. I started my first newspaper using Mac’s then highly advanced, since totally antiquated Classic and the first laser printer they came out with – as expensive as they were these units made it possible for me to START a newspaper with its revoluntionary desktop publishing. I could NEVER have afforded the investment into the THEN publishing industry equipment to have started my own business.

      Jump forward to Mac today, and the graphics and video environment into which this system has pushed. Again, as expensive as Mac stuff can be, it is still affordable when one considers the Big House alternatives of not so long ago. This goes for PCs as well, and in the old days of long ago and far away (well, as far as California from Texas anyway) many, MANY of us could NEVER have become independent professional video services providers without the advent of the Amiga Toaster/Flyer, Macs and the various PC platforms and software that helped equalize the industry.

      Now many of the big boys and botique shops are competing, using PC and MAC based systems and software.

      Ongoing debates on forums everywhere, such as the one here that became inevitable the minute somebody wanted to know why MAC/FCP was so popular, are cute, but do not go beyond giving somebody something to opinionate over to no real significant level of objective input. Kind of like seeing who’s fart stinks worse.

      I liked the farmer/tracter analogy.

    • #192007
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      Its the digital equivalent to “My dad can beat up your dad”. πŸ˜€

      The end of this debate is whatever works for YOU. Mac, PC, can telephone. It doesnt matter. If you are comfortable with it, use it and squeeze the best outta it. Like Earl said, the wonderful architecture of that house is in the architect, not the hammer.

    • #192008
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      This might have been a valid debate 10 years ago, when MAC was the industry leader in video and graphics editing. But today, like everyone else said, it’s what you build not how you build it.

      The editing systems are so equal today, it just comes down to what you are comfortable with.

      I like FCP but I have used some of the others as well. For PC I like Adobe PP.

    • #192009
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      It’s amazing to me how this debate (pc vs mac) is still going strong for so many years. It seems like centuries ago I got my first laptop PC (Packardbell 486) back in ’94.Flash forward to ’96 and my first gig in a major production house force-fed me mac os 7. Way different interface from pc, but doable. At that time for digital production (graphics and video) mac really was the only game in town.In ’97, I got my first pc workstation and with photoshop and premiere was doing amazing stuff at a fraction of the cost my former gig paid for their $50k media composer setup. I looked into building my own mac workstation (remember mac clones?) but by’99 mac put the kibosh on all of that.

      By 2000, I was on my own and starting my own company and still couldn’t stare down the barrel of paying for a mac setup + software + support gear and production gear. However, Sonic Foundry (now ameobically absorbed by sony) came out with some godsend software based tools; sound forge and acid. So, working with an adobe / sonic foundry pipeline I could get some really amazing stuff done at a fraction of the cost using a mac based system. I didn’t hate macs, just couldn’t afford them.

      Fast forward to `02 through some major funding, I trained on avid media composer (mac), symphony (pc) and got a copy of avid dv express (production bundle pc/mac). FCP was just getting started and couldn’t compare to avid at the time. However, I was still using premiere to get short fuse jobs done. You just couldn’t beat the adobe/sonic foundry pipeline for getting things done on the cheap. One of the previous posters said something about ‘FCP’ being the tool of the independent filmmaker. Well, for the ‘insurgent filmmakers’ like me (no bankrolling studio, few if any investors, no distribution deal withjust a solid plan, skill and determination) mac has not remotely been an economical choice. Now, though I like another poster, can build powerful workstations that could vaporize a comparable mac for less money the new problem is the old one. Whereas before you could mix and match software (and platforms) to get the job done, it’s now getting harder because companies are making their ‘pipelines’ more proprietary. Though this makes for more streamlined work within the pipeline, it makes mixing and matching more difficult and more expensive.

      Now unfortunately, I hate macs. Not because they don’t work (they do) or don’t crash (they do.) I hate the dogma that ‘you’re not serious unless you use macs.’ I know that’s all based on marketing and people’s attitudes, but I do get a nice cold feeling when people see my company’s work and can’t believe we ‘did it’ without a single mac in the process. Now, I’ve got my beefs with microsoft too! However, unlike mac it’s still ok to go out and build your own (but that’s changing).

      Am I going to run out and spend untold amounts of money to retrain and retool to accomodate a transistion to mac? Not likely. I do however insist my collaborators work cross-platform because that’s the reality of the industry. So I do my best to make sure we use programs that can ‘play nice’ with others because ‘it’s on’ when it comes togetting the job done.

    • #192010
      Avatarpol
      Participant

      I also don’t like Final Cut and I hate Macs. Vegas and PCs for me. There is also Adobe stuff that won’t run on Macs. I don’t know, PCs make more sense to me. Two button mouse and no command key. I like it.

      Dud if you are sticking with aplatformfor the sake of not using a control key……. that’s just wrong….. at work I use all of the autodesk line of products on PC’s, and they are all ok…… but in my home studio I use mac with FCSP and just got my CS4 production premiumbundle. and like it way way better…. It’s ok to like your PC, but I’ve never met someone who was a MAC user that moved to PC…. they areusuallythe other way around….. oh and by the way my mac can run windows but I only use it for Real Flow

    • #192011
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      i hate when people complain about a one button mouse. They make a 2 button mouse now, and if you don’t like that you can plug in your own mouse.

      And the command key is the apple key.

      It’s one thing to hate, and other to hate when you know nothing about what you’re hating.

    • #192012
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      I use a mac ’cause it workz.

      reliably, and undeniably.

      If you choose to use a windoze infected pc….good for you.

      not my problem. I will bury you if you try to compete with me, and I don’t care what system yer using.

    • #192013
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hello everyone.

      I apologize for ‘resurrecting’ this old thread, but if I may,I would like to ask a question of all you Apple owners.

      Generally speaking, how is Apple’s support?

      I am not in the market to purchase at the moment, butdoes Apple let one purchase a base-model unit, and then add one’s own components?

      Apple wants$6,100.00 for 32 GB of RAM,and they also want about $300.00 for a 1TB hard drive. One can getSeagate 1.5TB HDD’sfor about$129.00 each (with a five year warranty); and I am sure Crucial RAM is faster.

      If one was hypotheticallyto purchase a Mac Pro with the minimum amount of RAM and HDD’s,would Apple be happy to provide support if one then purchased additional RAM and HDD’s after-market? Or would they look to void out the warranty, and discontinue support?

      Also, does anyone know how HP does with that sort of thing?

      Thank you very much,

      Norman

    • #192014
      AvatarXTR-91
      Participant

      Apple’s Final Cut Pro is very (and I mean very) high-end software with graphics, full-feature audio editing, and a ton of editing possiblities.

      Ok, so the crowd on this thread is growing… yeah, im just gotta run…

    • #192015
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      Norman,

      Apple’s support is very good. You are speaking with someone in Cali. rather than someone in India.

      You can purchase a base model Mac and add your own components. If you do that, you will lose your warranty agreement thing, but I suggest doing it anyway. I ordered extra RAM and SATA drives from OWC. It’s much cheaper and still mac certified.

      Like I said above, the warranty would be void if you purchase from another vendor, but if you call and ask for support they will still help you. You just can’t get a new Mac if your computer blows up or something, which is rare anyway.

    • #192016
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Just as a note on Rob’s comment above, my understanding from the dealers and online guru’s – if you don’t physically break something (like drop a coin onto the motherboard with the power on), adding RAM and/or internal hard drives does not void the Apple warranty.

      As to some of the previous comments – I’ve used both Mac and PC platforms extensively. I actually do have both on my desk at this moment, with a KVM switch using one monitor, keyboard and (3 button) mouse. I much prefer Mac because I know the machine itself is built to very high standards with usually great parts (there have been exceptions, but for the most part, very good) and software that has a (generally) consistent interface and plays well with the hardware. And, AVCHD issues aside, Macs have always played with PC files much better than PC’s play with Mac (and often PC) files.

      I can’t say that for the dozen or so PC’s I’ve used over the years.

      If you’re not a “technical person” that has the knowledge to properly build your own machine – and the vast majority of people really don’t – Macs are a better choice.

      So for the OP – FCP is so popular because it makes the job of editing reasonably easy for a decent (though not free) cost on a platform that does a very good job with few issues. When you want to get the job done without becoming a “technician” for your computer, Macs generally win, and FCP has been the application of choice.

      (BTW – if you’re equipping a medium to large studio, experience has shown that tech support for Macs costs one third that of PC’s. Put that into your Cost of Ownership calculations before your purchase.)

      Neil

    • #192017
      AvatarDaryl
      Participant
    • #192018
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hi Daryl.

      That was a great vid. Everyone should watch that. Especially the last part.

      Norman

    • #192019
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      Daryl,

      I meant to post that video, but I thought it might have been too advanced for many of the novices on these forums. Those folks are at the top of the game, Hollywood Industry Pro’s. Much of what they had to say is relevant to the independent producer and the novice starting out. Unless you’re rolling with budgets and deep-pocket client lists like they have, you’ll need to take the info they passed on and apply it at your scale. The thing I found most intriguing was how they mentioned how Adobe is making inroads on both FCP and Avid, but didn’t mention how Vegas is becoming very popular with american broadcasting and editing reality tv for broadcast.

      The thing that will make Premiere eventually become equal to or greater than FCP in market share is that it is crossplatform. Avid will maintain its dominance because of that. Despite Apple’s marketing mantra ‘Get a Mac’ and Microsoft’s ball dropping with Vista, there are people who for whatever reasons will stay loyal or switch back and forth from either. The programs that work crossplatform will be dominant. Years ago, Apple gave in and allowed the Apple version of MS Office, because everyone in the business world saw it as the standard (and still do). I know lots of PC editors who would use FCP if it were crossplatform, me being one.

      With everything in the industry compressing, being able to collaborate will be more important than ever and being able to do so amongst Apple, Windows and Linux will keep software viable (and profitable) in the coming years.

    • #192020
      AvatarDaryl
      Participant

      Hey composite1I agree 100% with what you are saying but I thought that while people are always asking this question in all kinds of fourms they should see what the big guys are saying. Basically that is the way most people see things they want to be like the pros, so if the pros are saying FCP is that way to go everyone jumps on that train for the most part not all though. Besides I cut my teeth on Vegas and I will continue to use Vegas thats me. I can do everthing in Vegas that a person can do in FCP and Adobe. Trust me I know this as I also have CS3 on my computer as well but all i really use from that is AE. Take a look at this training video that Dr. Eric Franks does on D-Juice with vegas and listen to what he says about Vegas

      A Ray of Light with Motion Designer’s Toolkit in Sony Vegas Its all about prefrence even the big guys had thier loyalties

    • #192021
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hi Comp.

      >>I meant to post that video, but I thought it might have been too advanced for many of the novices on these forums. Those folks are at the top of the game, Hollywood Industry Pro’s. Much of what they had to say is relevant to the independent producer and the novice starting out. Unless you’re rolling with budgets and deep-pocket client lists like they have, you’ll need to take the info they passed on and apply it at your scale.

      I know I said that on another thread, but please let me say it again for the benefit of others who are reading: “When in doubt, please post.” I have begun ranging onto other forums in order to find the technical data I need, because the stuff is not readily available here on Videomaker. Something about the VM forum, I dunno, I just like it. I just wish the pros like yourself would post the more technical stuff as well, so I don’t have to roam.

      I think it is really, reallynice that you give such consideration and respect to beginners and hobbyists, but I think most people are smart enough to filter and sort out what they do and don’t really need. I know I am hungry for more.

      Hi Darryl,

      >>Hey composite1I agree 100% with what you are saying but I thought that while people are always asking this question in all kinds of fourms they should see what the big guys are saying.

      I totally agree with that. That video helped me a lot. I have about a year and a half left on this workstation before I can upgrade, and I am seriously considering the Mac and FCP, just because I value my time (and fewer headaches) more than I value the money (and I think that’s the way to go). However, that video made me stop and think at a much higher level: if Steve Jobs is ill and people are already leaving the FCP team, then I should really pay more attention to what the alpha dogs are saying and doing. Nice post, and please keep ’em coming.

      >>Besides I cut my teeth on Vegas and I will continue to use Vegas thats me. I can do everthing in Vegas that a person can do in FCP and Adobe. Trust me I know this as I also have CS3 on my computer as well but all i really use from that is AE. Take a look at this training video that Dr. Eric Franks does on D-Juice with vegas and listen to what he says about Vegas

      I completely agree with that, and I love Sony Vegas (a lot). Just the fact that I can throw anything at all up on the timeline without conversion is so nice, it makes me want to stay loyal to it. However (and there is always one of those in this industry)I am very frustrated with Sony at the moment, because just like they try to squeeze more money out of people with their proprietary nonsense in their cameras (e.g., ‘Memory Stick’ instead of Compact Flash or SDHC cards), they also like to keep secrets from third party vendors, and don’t provide support. It makes it so very limiting.

      For example,Matrox MX.O2 will not work with Vegas, andwhile BMD works, it is not officially supported.Also, Vegas Pro 8 worked with Boris and Cineform, but now inversion 9 there are issues between 32 and 64 bit. Either theSonydevelopersfailed to coordinate with Boris andCineform, or else they ‘forgot’ to include the same drivers in v9 as they had in v8; so now we haveto wait for the v9a patch before we can usethosethings in both 32 and 64 bit. I don’t know how this affects other people, but I find it frustrating in the extreme, because I need the larger media sizes that v9 supports, and I just went to a lot of trouble to go 64 bit, because Sony said they were going to get behind their software. I just don’t get it: Sony doesnot treat their cameras or their laptopsthat way:so why do they treat the mostpromisingsoftware platform in the world thatway? It is like they are sitting on it, hoping to suffocate it to death when they could be helping it to become thechampion of the world.

      And why optimize for AMD, whenmost of the world has gone Intel? And why notmake it cross-platform, so it would work on either aPC or a Mac? I would love to go Mac for my machine, butI don’t want to lose Vegas. So if Sony is getting behind theirsoftware as they say,then why are we stuck with one platform, and why all the bugs, and lack of third-party integration and support?

      I just don’t get it.

      >>Take a look at this training video that Dr. Eric Franks does on D-Juice with vegas and listen to what he says about Vegas

      I apologize, but I do not see the link. I would love to view that video. Can you please point me towards it?

      Norman

    • #192022
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      “Now many of the big boys and botique shops are competing, using PC and MAC based systems and software.”

      Earl hit it on the head with that one. No doubt FCP is considered an industry standard tool, but so is Avid. In the AlphaDog’s video the featured editors reiterate that. For further proof of the FCP/Avid – Mac/PC workflow, check out a copy of the ‘Iron Man’ DVD+ version’s Special Features Disk. You will see first hand how on location, to the Visual FX boutiques and in the editing suites of Industrial Light and Magic that there ‘is no PC vs. Mac’ debate. The big boys use the tools that get the job done … period.

      “I thought that while people are always asking this question in all kinds of fourms they should see what the big guys are saying.”

      “I think most people are smart enough to filter and sort out what they do and don’t really need. I know I am hungry for more.”

      Daryl, Norman,

      I sit corrected. It’s tough to gauge the average experience-technical level sometimes in the forums. We seem to get way more, ‘What is a camera?’ level questions than, ‘What format of HD video is best suited for transfer to 35mm film intended for theatrical release?’ With that in mind, to avoid hijacking this thread I’ll start another titled ‘Advanced Info’.

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