When do you get to….

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    • #40086
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      When do you get to start calling yourself a professional?

    • #172405
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      tramp…does it for fun.

      pro…does it for money.

      either way it’s fun.

    • #172406
      AvatarchrisColorado
      Participant

      Yeah, I call myself a pro on my blog/website since I get paid to shoot and edit video.

      Same with web design and graphic design.

    • #172407
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      You probably already are. πŸ˜‰

    • #172408
      Avatarbirdcat
      Participant

      I’ve had a serious peeve about this for years.

      Professional means that you’ve been paid (however much or little) to do something. If you’ve ever been paid to videotape anything, you’re a professional videographer. Plain and simple.

      However, that doesn’t mean you’re good at it (no slur implied – just stating a general possibility).

      In my youth, when I was a professional photographer, I studied under the tutelage of some amazing “amateur” photographers – One in particular had the distinction of (at the time) having won more blue ribbons (first place) in amateur photo contests than anyone else in the country (US).

      Was he a professional? No.

      Was he amazingly talented and one of the best? Without a doubt.

      Don’t get hung up on labels – Just go and do what you a) enjoy and/or b) are good at.

    • #172409
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      I agree, don’t get hung up on labels. My pet peeve is polls of which NLE is better. LOL If you are comfortable with it, it’s best for you. Everyone always votes for their NLE. People always expound the virtues of Brand X over Brand Y when in reality Brand X is probably what they found, liked and became used to and now swear by it. Someone else may have ended up with Brand Y and did the same. It means nothing.

      The “Top 3” or “Top 5” NLE is hogwash! There are people producing wonderful video with the last 5 and the top 5. Some cannot afford the top 5 and others choose the last 5. The number one NLE is the one that you use and love. No matter which one that is.

      As for “Professional” it’s not just about money. If you approach the subject with a professional attitude and take your art seriously, then I think you are a professional, even if you never make a dime off it. Even if your videos are trash to other people. It doesn’t matter. You decide what you are, not anyone else.

      When do you get to be a professional? When you decide you are. So Robgrauert, are you a professional?

    • #172410
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      “So Robgrauert, are you a professional?”

      hmm…i guess so. i just do what my clients tell me to do. or does that make me their bitch. haha

    • #172411
      AvatarAspyrider
      Participant

      LOL

    • #172412
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Professional video is a service, just like prostitution. Some are street hacks that make great money, some work for houses and get a chance to expand their skill and some work independently with a strong client list. But video pros & professional ladies of the night are essentially the bitch and whipping boy for somebody who can’t tell good work from bad work. Spread through the forums are comments about how dreadful local news looks, but they are putting out a certain quantity of work every day, day in, day out.

      Yeah, I generally only tell people I’m a video producer when I have a program in distribution. Cause if you say you make TV, people are only interested so long as there’s a chance they may have or might be able to see your show. Since I don’t have a series in production right now, I just tell people I do free lance work and ask what they think of “Swingtown.”

      I’m not sure anything I just said has a point. But thanks to reading.

    • #172413
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      The denotation of professional is someone who engages in an activity as a means of livelihood while an amateur is one who doesn’t, also someone who works for pay. So if you are paid for editing or producing video you would technically be a professional.

      However, there is also a connotation to the term professional that suggests a certain level of skill/expertise or training in the field.

      To me a professional is truly a master of his craft. Part of the problem with the democratization of technology is that the level of experience and skill to be considered a professional seems to have declined. I am not just talking only about video production, the same is true for the design industry. Anyone can buy (or steal) Photoshop, do a couple of tutorials online and think they’re pretty hot. But in reality what they are is a barely trained dilettante. I believe that not only does this lead to a lowering of the quality level of the work but also a general lessening of the respectability/prestige of the profession.

      On one hand I think that the democratization of media is a great thing. People who previously had no way to getting their beliefs or ideas to an audience can now do so. The proliferation of video and camera technology along with the emergence of the WWW as a distribution source have created an new media revolution where everyone can be a content producer. But on the other hand as more people who have little to no training can produce/edit content and get paid for it, the bar for being a professional lowers.

    • #172414
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      I asked this question to kind of see what everyone thought. I already understood that if you get paid, you’re a “professional.” But I think jerronsmith got into what I was looking for when he said there is a certain level of expertise that’s expected when you call yourself a professional. I’m sure there is no clear line between professional andamateur, but I just wanted to see where you guys thought you might draw that line.

      “Part of the problem with the democratization of technology is that the level of experience and skill to be considered a professional seems to have declined.” -jerronsmith

      I agree and disagree. I disagree because I feel that this increase in technology has caused those who are serious about video to learn more than you would have had to in the past. I think the best example is the editor. Editors don’t just cut the video anymore. They cut it together, edit the sound, create graphics (which may also require graphic design skills), color grading, and maybe even DVD authoring. And I feel that if you are pretty good at all that, and probably more than what I mentioned, then you deserve to be called a professional.

      On the other hand, I agree because so many people can make video these days, but not many people can do it well. Part of me wants to tell the cocky people that they suck, but then the other part knows it’s not a good idea to be a jerk. Its also annoying me that viewers actually settle for bad video too.

    • #172415
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      >>They cut it together, edit the sound, create graphics (which may also require graphic design skills), color grading, and maybe even DVD authoring. And I feel that if you are pretty good at all that, and probably more than what I mentioned, then you deserve to be called a professional.<<

      But that is part the problem with the situation as well. When all the editor had to do was one thing (cut) there was more time to develop and learn the craft of editing. When you have to learn and keep current on a wider range of skill the level of expertise you have in any one of them will probably decline. The phrase “jack of all trades, master of none” comes to mind. Now I am not saying that there are not people who can master a wide range of skills, but from my experience most of the ones who think they have master multiple disciplines (especially those who are self taught) really haven’t. It’s kind of like Gymnastics, it is easier to win a medal in a single event than it is to win in the all around, because the all around had more individual skills in it to master. This is pretty much why in my opinion film and TV editors (for high end TV) tend to have the highest levels of skill in the craft of editing. These industries are still so stratified that all they do is edit.

      >>Part of me wants to tell the cocky people that they suck<<

      Part of the problem is that it isn’t necessarily an issue with cockiness as much as a lack of understanding/knowledge of the crafts and where ones skill level lies. There are many good and well meaning people through out the world who believe that because they get paid to edit video (usually there own on on small scale productions), or create graphics that they are very experienced and knowledgeable. It is the big fish in a small pond analogy. This is why I suggest that all creative professionals or aspiring creative professionals join professional organizations, attend trade show & seminars, take classes, and read books on the crafts because the more exposure you have to aspects of the industry outside of your comfort/experience zone the more chance for growth you have.

      The democratization of technology without an understanding and respect for the craft tends to lead in a decline in the entire craft as a whole. I believe that people need to understand that having an editing program and even knowing it well don’t make you a good editor just as having/knowing Photoshop doesn’t make you a graphic designer.

    • #172416
      AvatarchrisColorado
      Participant

      Jack of All Trades, Master of None. That describes me to a “T” or whatever the phrase is (see, i’m not a master of English, just knowa little). I’m not all that great at anything, but I know enough to be dangerous. I just know the basic ideas of most multimedia functions and mess around til I get it right.

      “Part of the problem with the democratization of technology is that the level of experience and skill to be considered a professional seems to have declined.” -jerronsmith

      That’s so true! The other problem is that the good ones aren’t appreciated so much because of youtube, etc.

      “But video pros…are essentially the***** and whipping boy for somebody who can’t tell good work from bad work.” – BarefootMedia

      I don’t agree with the language, but this is also EXTREMELY true and ruins my life at work. My boss thinks he knows more because he’s older, owns the cameras, got frustrated at Pinnacle Studio and bought Sony Vegas. He can’t tell whether I’ve just changed a few things on a project, or spent a whole week redoing the audio because the speaker’s voice dynamics were all over the place. He doesn’t care either.

    • #172417
      Avatarjerronsmith
      Participant

      >>Jack of All Trades, Master of None. That describes me to a “T” or whatever the phrase is (see, i’m not a master of English, just knowa little). I’m not all that great at anything, but I know enough to be dangerous. I just know the basic ideas of most multimedia functions and mess around til I get it right.<<

      And back to the original point of the thread. Does this describe a “professional”? This is basically how I would describe a student or a journeyman but not a master.

    • #172418
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      Jack of All Trades, Master of None. That describes me to a “T” or whatever the phrase is (see, i’m not a master of English, just knowa little). I’m not all that great at anything, but I know enough to be dangerous. I just know the basic ideas of most multimedia functions and mess around til I get it right.

      “Part of the problem with the democratization of technology is that the level of experience and skill to be considered a professional seems to have declined.” -jerronsmith

      That’s so true! The other problem is that the good ones aren’t appreciated so much because of youtube, etc.

      “But video pros…are essentially the***** and whipping boy for somebody who can’t tell good work from bad work.” – BarefootMedia

      I don’t agree with the language, but this is also EXTREMELY true and ruins my life at work. My boss thinks he knows more because he’s older, owns the cameras, got frustrated at Pinnacle Studio and bought Sony Vegas. He can’t tell whether I’ve just changed a few things on a project, or spent a whole week redoing the audio because the speaker’s voice dynamics were all over the place. He doesn’t care either.

      If your boss can’t tell whether you’ve tweaked a few things or spent the week redoing……He doesn’t care either…

      I’m a strong believer that if one can’t tell the difference between escargot, and snot, one should never order the escargot.

      I’d suggest you spend your time learning the business end of things, saving seed money, building clientelle, & tell your boss you spent all week tweeking audio. Soon you’ll be the guy who owns the cameras….

    • #172419
      Avatarbirdcat
      Participant

      My boss thinks he knows more because he’s older, owns the cameras, got frustrated at Pinnacle Studio and bought Sony Vegas. He can’t tell whether I’ve just changed a few things on a project, or spent a whole week redoing the audio because the speaker’s voice dynamics were all over the place. He doesn’t care either.

      A couple of thoughts from some who is older (54). With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.

      I have spoken out for years about those folks who truly know what they’re doing vs. those who think they do – It’s not just in video/film but in every profession – Truly great folks will have no problems showing you how to also become great – Sitting at their feet and listening, watching and emulating is a wonderful experience and they help make it so. There is also no rule that states that experience makes for talent – sometimes someone new can bring novel ideas that can best the most experienced one out there.

      Those who think they have great talent and hoard that like a dragon guarding treasure are empty and not worth looking to for guidance – Truly talented people make you feel like you can also be talented.

      There are also others who think they already know it all and try to teach those who do – Most of the time they are pitied by the ones who can help them most.

      Just my $4.38 (two cents adjusted for inflation)

    • #172420
      AvatarRyan3078
      Participant

      >>Jack of All Trades, Master of None. That describes me to a “T” or whatever the phrase is (see, i’m not a master of English, just knowa little). I’m not all that great at anything, but I know enough to be dangerous. I just know the basic ideas of most multimedia functions and mess around til I get it right.<<

      And back to the original point of the thread. Does this describe a “professional”? This is basically how I would describe a student or a journeyman but not a master.

      I think that as an individual, to be a professional you need to specialize somehow. That way you are able to focus on a certain program, product type, etc. Then you’ll be better than anyone else in the area at it! If you just know the basics of everything, then you’ll end up at the entry level, since you won’t have enough experience to do advanced work.

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