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- This topic has 11 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 14 years, 9 months ago by Anonymous.
June 4, 2006 at 10:02 AM #42474AnonymousInactive
Hi, I just wondered if anyone owns one of the above camcorders. I have always used Sony, but the professional ones b/c of my work.
Now I am looking for a middle of the road one that I can take with me anywhere and has a half decent digital camera as well.
Though I will still be using my 35 mm, i thought there maybe an off chance that I need to take a pix right away and thus use the dig camera.
This camera has been recommended to me and sells for $999 cdn and 4 yr $260 service plan here at the future shop and $70 for a bag and 4 cd’s.
What I am wondering is how easy is it to edit with these new cameras. I know that there is a hookup to the computer and in my case it is a Toshiba 2410 satellite, 1.9 ghz, 512 RAM, intel processor and pent 4.
I have a new notebook in the box unopened yet.
It is 3.2 ghz and the burner I use with my older model is a BenQ 162I and also I purchased their new version as it burns in DVD ROM via their exe. on their support site and I have not had a complaint from 10 dvd player owners in our family as to problems playing their dvd’s.
What I am wondering is whether it is easy to Edit the mini dvd’s. I know that there is a new format coming out that burns to the hard drive but i don’t want that.
Am I able to watch the mini dvd that from the camera in my BenQ 162I as there appears to be a small circular slot when the door opens in my external burner.
I am mainly concerned about the editing if i get a mish mash of subjects on a dvd and then want to put one subject only on a regular 4.75 DVD.
Is there a good program for this?
I presently have 1 click dvd copy, clone dvd, Nero 6, Any Dvd. Presuming I won’t need to use the latter.
I have used professional Sony’s and still do with my work, however the dvd option appeals to me so that I can burn a copy quite easily for the family and eventually learn how to title, edit etc.
What program would that be and is it difficult?
BTW, is there any major difference with this model and the DVRC DVD 505 for the extra $100.
I am sorry that the Link did not take you right into Sony, Just type in Camcorders and you will see the model 405 and 505 listed there.
Again I look forward to comments, thankyou.
I look forward to responses, thankyou
June 4, 2006 at 2:39 PM #178371AnonymousInactive
I agree with the above. DVD is a pain to edit.
Tape is the way to go.
June 5, 2006 at 6:54 AM #178372AnonymousInactive
We have a hi 8 Sony already in its case and it has not been used for so metime and we did do edits on this one and albeit they were good they too were time consuming.
Are you saying that the quality of the pic is poor or the quality of getting a decent edited dvd is the major factor?
What my husband and I were thinking about was the fact that we could use individual dvd’s for each of our 4 granchildren’s families.
The thought of editing to be very honest, we did not look into. what we were thinking is that for say our only daughters family we would use a 30 min mini dvd, for when one of the kids birthdays came up and then if it actually turned out to be say 20 minutes so be it. then we would put it back in its case until there was another event in her family and then insert that mini dvd again until we filled the mini dvd.
And then do another mini dvd of her family again for a total of 30 min and then playback on the day of each occasion for her family to see and then burn mini dvd 1 onto a 4.75 and follow it up with the second mini dvd.
Would this work?
Actual editing of the 2 mini dvd’s after put onto the regular 4.75 we did not think about and realize that it is complex.
We see the tape ones out there but have not looked at them b/c we thought that the mini dvd would be convenient to plug into their dvd player and fun for the kids to watch.
Sony recommends R+ BTW.
The better half and I always burn R+ media as that is what is recommended by our BenQ I external support people in Irvine California and we burn the 4.75 Dvd in Dvd ROM, the "exe" that is what BenQ recommended and all of our Dvd’s work on all of our family and friend’s dvd players.
If we return the mini dvd 405 model that we bought is there a suggested home use Sony that a member can recommend?
And what about an editing program.
Nero Express 6 is all that comes with this 405 model.
And we would appreciate comments on the first description made of putting mini dvd 1 on a 4.75 (30 min) and then adding mini dvd 2 onto it to make a full one hour dvd of simply that one family’s events.
And I take it without editing which we were considering further down the road.
Again, all experienced comments would be appreciated.
We were not necessarily going to put a lot of work into editing as we did with our children’s videos when we used the hi 8, however we thought with newer technology that editing would not be so cumbersome.
I hope to hear back soon from members as I should return this model and continue looking as it sounds like we did not research this enough.
I guess one of the attractions with this unit was the Media (mini dvd)as we found the media for our Sony hi 8 which was well over $2000 was getting harder to get and also decent batteries were an issue as well. we used to use Sun Pak and they had a meter to tell you when they would be close to running out. Now it is just plain old batteries.
If tape is still the best then one would have to create a dvd from for instance our Hauppauge Win TV PVR usb2, is that correct?
That was one step we were trying to avoid.
Then what editing user friendly software would be use?
Best regards and I look forward to comments again.
June 5, 2006 at 7:18 AM #178373AnonymousInactive
The problem with cameras that use DVD recorders is that they ruin the quality of the video. I have no clue about still images, but your video will have blurring and splotching straight out of your Camcorder.
The next problem is that mpeg is hard to edit. Trust me on this. I made a minor mistake on a wedding video once, and I had already moved the raw files off the PC onto my long-term storage. I just figured I’d pop open the mpeg and add the one line I forgot. Bad idea. Editing mpeg clips takes forever using Sony Vegas. I can only imagine that off home consumer editors it would take longer.
Bang for the buck, I would reccomend Getting a Sony Digital 8, which runs off standard 8mm or hi-8 cassetes that you can find at any retail store. Yes, you will have to dump video to your computer in realtime, but because it’s an uncompressed digital format, you’ll get far superior quality to the video that you get from your DVD burning camera. Sony is pretty good about selling batteries to older cameras, and if worst comes to worst, you can find consumer camcorder batteries on ebay that are rebuilt and good as new for dirt cheap.
Now, if money isn’t a concern AND you don’t want to sit around and dump video to your computer in real time, I would suggest getting yourself a Canon GL-2 and a Firestorm digital recorder. The firestorm is sort of like a hard drive that your uncompressed video records on. When you’re done, you plug it into your PC, and no waiting to get your video editing going. On the combination, expect to spend $3000. But the GL-2 uses Canon’s standard pro batteries and MiniDV tapes, so as it is, even if you don’t get the firestorm, finding tapes and batteries will be easy.
If you want good looking video, DVD-cameras are not the way to go. Maybe in a few years, if they figure out how to indegrate blu-ray into home consumer cameras it would be interestig, but as it is today, it’s no good if you’re going to do any editing at all
June 5, 2006 at 8:10 AM #178374AnonymousInactive
Eh, good point about the Digital 8 format. It’s true that it’s harder to find 8mm tapes out there these days, though I still see the 8-packs they sell at Sams and the single packs at Wal-Mart. MiniDV will stand the test of time better. Either way though, uncompressed digital the only way to edit a good video. You’re very right about motion degredation. The blurring and whatnot can get fairly rediculous if it’s a fast-paced event (like sports – something a lot of kids do).
June 5, 2006 at 8:48 AM #178375AnonymousInactive
Thx for the great replies. I gather then that my idea of taking the mini dvd#1 of the daughters family and burning it to my larger 4.75 dvd is going to be degradation? and then when I add mini dvd #2 to it, the end result is a blurry mess as it is a copy of what came out of the camcorder which from several posters comes out bad directly from the source.
Is this b/c it is digital?
BTW, I was looking up Sony’s Vegas MSDVD6 and it indicates the hook up has to be firewire connector/IEEE – 1394 and our notebook is 2.1 usb.
Is this the only program that can be used to edit the Sony?
Just trying to get things into perspective for the future.
Sounds like there is a void now for quality camcorder video.
I was looking at the Sony mini dvd 46 which looked not bad, however I will have to use film and then convert to dvd which will be second generation and will lose quality.
As the better half has said we don’t want to spend thousands on a camera for family use which will not be used half as much as our old hi 8 when the kids were busy and it had the great infrared compared to our other models that had focus via TTL and we were not impressed.
We always select Sony b/c of the quality, but it sounds like the images when moving are bleary right out of the camera.
How do they charge over a thousand dollars for such quality??
BTW, we are still unclear as to whether or not we can burn the mini dvd1 onto the 4.75 dvd and then insert mini dvd #2 into the burner and then have a full hour on that 4.75 dvd.
Again asking this question for the future.
What new Sony camcorder out there that is not in the thousands is any good or is there not one in existence???
I again thankyou for your comments and look forward to the above, sorry for sounding so dense; however dvd sounded like the great way to go until now.
BTW, non of us are High Definition TV owners and won’t be going that route until all of our new tv’s the oldest 2 yrs and 30 inch max size , suddenly drop dead.
We are not tv buffs.
Again comments, thankyou. Trying to straigten out the mind!!! Still stuck in Hi 8 groove and our professional work monster cameras.
June 5, 2006 at 9:51 AM #178376AnonymousInactive
Any comments about the Sony Vegas Movie Studio + dvd video editing software VEGASMSDVD6??
I mentioned that it had to be connected via FireWire connector/IEEE 1394 device and my notebooks are USB 2??
I wondered if this is a better editing program.
Right now as an example I use a Hauppauge unit that converts my family videos created from my Sony Hi 8 camera and am quite surprised at the quality. (And the Hauppauge Win TV PVR USB 2 in prep for my creation of a Dvd is in Mpeg)
The issue for me now is to get a user friendly version of an editing program I guess.
I had Nero on my notebook and got rid of it as it had some conflict issues with some of my work based programs.
So I gather I can do a straight burn of the Mini Dvd of the example of mini dvd 1 to a 4.75 and then follow it up with another 30 minute Mini Dvd to make a full hour on that large DVD.
The issue that I will have is that in order to do a Edit it will have to go into Mpeg?
Sorry for my Noob Mini DVd queries.
We are wondering if we should take this camera back and wait a few years thus all the questions and making certain we are not misunderstanding.
I look forward to comments, thankyou.
i should say when we bought the Sony 405 it had the following differences from the 505 and cost only $100 less and wondered if we should get the 505 once we understand all of your experienced comments.
The Sony 405 has:
InfoLithium with AccuPower Meter System
2.7 inch wide touch panel swivel screen
Image Stabilization: Steady Shot (Super, Electronic)…will this use more battery??
Outputs: Analog, Digital, USB port, S-video (no firewire)
Active Interface Shoe
Still picture resolution 640 x480 (vga) 2016 x 1134 (16.9)
1600×1200 (1.9mp) 2016×1512 (3.0 mp)
LCD view screen 3.5 inch
Exposure Control..what does that mean??
Image Stabilization: Electronice, not like the 405 above
Inputs: Multi A/V,USB, 2.0 compliant, Mini plug??? what would this be for?
Formats are spelled out for this model: DVD-R/-RW,+RW (Physical??)
DVD-Video/DVD-VR/DVD+RW Video (Logical)???
Memory Stick Types: Memory stick duo media, memory stick produo media,(parallel interface) Memory stick Pro Duo High Speed media (parallel interface)
PC Software: Picture package Version 1.8 and Nero Express 6 (Conversion Software)<<<<< what does that refer to??
Again I look forward to your comments on the above 2.
I should say the pixels on the 405 is 3 and on the 505 it is 4.
June 5, 2006 at 10:23 AM #178377AnonymousInactive
[quote="compusolver"]"Welcome back, SVHS!"[/quote]
Hey! 😀 It’s been a while, but I’m having such a hard time with my daytime job lately…
I also redesigned my website these days and I’m back on the forums too.
And believe me, it’s like herding cats X-D but I’m doing a new video project now for a competition and hopefully will be back online soon.
June 5, 2006 at 12:55 PM #178378AnonymousInactive
The question re: exposure rating was trying to understand what the better half’s scrawl on his paper was all about and it was not to include that topic.
You keep saying that I want to edit, when I mention the word edit I am merely looking at adding a title and music in the background and a closing text portion, to clarify the question.
I hope that resolves those queries.
I thought that you were supposed to post a new topic if you had one that had nothing to do with the current post and not hi jack another members?
That is what occurs at other forums and I believe that is the norm and respects the forums members. Courtesy.
My queries re mini dvd’s to 4.75 dvd creation is precisely b/c this is new to both my husband and myself and thus I am trying to type quickly his questions as he is anxious to purchase a camera and we already went through the Hi 8 and editing and believed that surely technology would have improved by now.
However by your comments, it sounds like it has not which is surprising. We really believed that being that mini dvd’s were being used that creation of a dvd with a small degree of edit would not involve an mpeg.
Our concept of the type of editing we would like to do is far from doing a long full blown effort. Just the title, music and text ending. However, we have been away from the world of dvd camcorders and thus are not up to date with what has to be done.
(And no one has said whether my original query of burning a #1 mini-dvd to a 4.75 large dvd and then adding a #2 to follow the # 1 burn would work….thus keeping one family of dvd’s together) ( Unless I missed the reply)
would appreciate a "yey" or "nay" on that one.
This forum obviously is fortunate to have such experienced members of which we certainly are not one of them and we aplogize for our lack of knowledge but we all have to start somewhere.
Cheers and we look forward to comments.
June 5, 2006 at 8:24 PM #178379AnonymousInactive
Hi, I posted that I was trying to understand the better halfs scrawl for the post and I typed in "exposure control" and as in my post earlier….it was not to have been included in the post the better half simply kept writing what was on the instructions and included it without re reading his notes.
Yes indeed we know what exposure control is, how could we be on tv assignments if we didn’t LOL.
It was an error, and I included it in the prior post.
Thx for taking the time to comment, however we already knew that answer.
The reason that this became confusing is because the sales rep said to use Windows Movie Maker to do the Menu and add music. And then the mpeg issue was raised.
June 6, 2006 at 3:20 PM #178380AnonymousInactive
Well I got the response to a good editing tool for this camcorder and it is adobe premiere, another owner of this camcorder highly recommends it and detailed comments from another member regarding his success rate with the program indeed make it worthy of consideration!
Thank goodness for the other forum! 😉
June 7, 2006 at 12:46 PM #178381AnonymousInactive
vicks: I just spent 15 minutes reading this thread. I guess it took me that long because you were very confusing on what you said you were going to do, then not do, then do again. The way I see it, compusolver, On a roll and svhs addressed everything you asked. Mind you that these guys had quality in mind as do I, which is what we all strive for. Of course you have the right to go else were for answers but Id like to talk to the guy that said that Adobe Premier Pro works great for editing mpegs. He obviously has a lot of time on his hands not to mention low standards for video quality.
The bottom line is this:
If you are just looking to record video using your DVD cam, and you later want to transfer that to a bigger DVD for archiving purposes, then keep your camera. As what was already mentioned, copying smaller (.mpeg) files from one little DVD to another big DVD is no problem and quality stays the same. Any CD/DVD writing software should be able to do this for you.
If you are planning to do ANY kind of editing whatsoever which includes adding a sound track of some kind, or even a title, then going with a DVD camera is NOT a good idea. Of course if you dont care about quality then go nuts! You mentioned that youre a professional so if thats true, I have to think that you do care.
It doesnt sound like you understand video compression so to explain why we are telling you that editing mpegs is not a good idea, I will attempt to give you crash course. Besides it was a slow day at the office. 8)
First of all you need a CODEC. This stands for COmpression/DECompression. Think of them as a software solution that shrinks file sizes down using a special algorithm process. You usually need to have the codec to first compress a file and then the same version to play that compressed file back.
I bet youre asking, Why would I want to do that? The answer is simple. Digital video data takes up a lot of space. This is nothing more than a clever way to shrink up that amount of space needed. If we didnt have that then you would need 4 regular DVDs to watch just an hour of video which is not what we want.
Heres how it works:
Lets say you have a 5 second video clip (150 frames @ 30fps) of a flag waving against a blue sky. The compression software looks at each frame at the digital pixel level and determines if anything has changes from the previous frame or frames. (I say this because it all depends on compression settings used.) Now if you can imagine, there is probably a lot of incidences where the blue pixels of the sky didnt change from frame to frame so why use that data again? What the software will do is drop the redundant pixels (using this special algorithm) that havent changed within a certain time frame and uses the data it had stored from the previous frame(s) again. By dropping this redundant data, naturally the file size starts to become smaller. When you do this for each 720×480 frame (345,600 pixels per/frame) you can imagine that you can shrink a file quite a bit after a while. That is the COMPRESSION side of it. Now when you want to play this compressed file back on something, you will need to have the DECOMPRESSION side of the codec available to interpret how the data stream should be put back together again (by using the same algorithm) so it can display the pixels in the same manor as was originally compressed. Thats pretty much how it works! (Generally speaking of course.)
Now. the reason you DONT want to use compressed (mpeg) for editing is because once the compression is done; the data of the redundant pixels is permanently deleted and can NOT be brought back anymore. The quality of the video will look OK as long as you have the codec (using its algorithm) working for you but it will not be close to the original uncompressed video which still has all of the pixel data present.
OK, now let say you want to edit some footage from your DVD camera you shot. REMEMBER it is already a compressed mpeg file. When you take that and edit it, you will have to take your newly edited version and re-encode it again. The same process starts all over again. The compression software looks at the data and plucks out the pixels that havent changed for a set period of time but NOW its taking data from something that has already been picked apart from the first time around. What do you end up with??? You get a VERY poor quality video because the DECOMPRESSION end of the process is having a hard time filling in the blanks thus giving you a lousy blurry picture with a lot of artifacts and blocking on the screen.
This is why you always want to use uncompressed AVI video (DV tape) during editing because you have the best possible quality of picture available and when youre all finished editing THEN you compress it to mpeg DVD video. Compressing video once using a nice codec is still going to give you a real close likeness of the original video. When you start compressing it more than once, the quality really starts to suffer.
PS: To be honest with you… you can do a lot of cool stuff with the tape cameras, computers and the neat software available so I guess I’m wondering why anyone would want a DVD camera in the first place?
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