Videomaker – Learn video production and editing, camera reviews › Forums › Technique › Editing › So what do you think of FCP X?
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June 24, 2011 at 4:33 PM #47370AnonymousInactive
I am a Sony Vegas User on the PC platform about to switch to the iMac. I will need to change my NLE software and from a price point you can’t beat FCP X though it seems to be getting slammed by the professional community. I am strictly a hobbiest so most of the complaints such as can’t import FCP 7 files, external monitor support, etc don’t really apply to me. I was just wondering if anybody here has used it, especially if you have also used Vegas Pro and what your opinions are.
June 24, 2011 at 4:56 PM #195087
ONLY from what I’ve read, and what I do know about iMovie, iDVD and the FCP Studio programs, I believe X will “shake out” over the next quarter and its subsequent updates and revisions will smooth out some of the ruffled feathers … particularly among the self-professed and other professional users.
For the most part people are adverse to change, sometimes ANY change, and when something changes as radically as X is purported to do when compared to the previous FCP iteration, they’re going to squeak and squabble. Change also isn’t always a good thing … well at least some elements of an overhaul like X compared to FCP Studio, et al.
But it is my firm belief, conviction and faith in Apple Computers and the Mac environment that the program overall will be well worth the wait for a system update or five. Perhaps those who purchase a copy toward the end of the last quarter of 2011 will begin to sing some praises and not be lobbing so many verbal grenades.
I plan to purchase X at that time and I have no doubt it will be very useful and in many ways more sophisticated and faster to achieve certain editing goals than the Studio was/is. Also, both can reside on a computer so I really don’t see what all the fuss is about. Those who have both can use both and $400-$500 for X plus the additional two elements, compressor, etc. isn’t a bad thing for what will eventually prove IMHO a good thing.
June 24, 2011 at 5:22 PM #195088
I’m with Earl.
We went through this with imovie hd and imovie 8.
The writing is on the wall.
I will admit I’m not as capable an editor as many of the users here are.
Within weeks of imovie ’09 I found myself never needing Imovie hd again.
I use imovie and FCE for my work. I do the rough edit in imovie(easier sorting on import), export an xml file to FCE, do my multicamera edits in fce as well as any keying, and color correcting, edit my audio in audacity then bring a finished project bact to imovie for publishing. Not exactly conveinient, but imovie does do some things really well, and my limited skills in final cut bring it up a notch so it can pass for professional work.
I believe when FCPX is able to do multi cam edits easily it will be a winner.
Nobody wants to learn from scratch, we all get set in our ways. But having taken the time to learn the basics in FCE and Imovie, I truly believe FCPX or imovie pro which ever you prefer, will speed up and simplify my workflow, and increase my productivity.
I await revision one before buying though.
June 24, 2011 at 5:32 PM #195089birdcatParticipant
Here is a quick review by some power users:
June 24, 2011 at 8:48 PM #195090
“But it is my firm belief, conviction and faith in Apple Computers and the Mac environment that the program overall will be well worth the wait for a system update or five. Perhaps those who purchase a copy toward the end of the last quarter of 2011 will begin to sing some praises and not be lobbing so many verbal grenades.” – Earl
Unfortunately, people have been waiting a long time already. When you consider FCS wasn’t much of an upgrade from FCS2, Apple has had since 2007 to get their act together. If you work in post production and you’re more than a one-man-band, this is terrible.
At first, I bought the argument “This is a V1 release. Just give it time.” The reality is, it isn’t a V1 release. Saying that implies it’s the first time Apple has made an NLE. The fact is, FCP has been around for over 10 years. They KNOW what basic functions editors need.
If you work by yourself, this is probably good enough. But if you own a business with multiple editors and create content for broadcast or other high-end content, this is a step backwards.
Apple has had plenty of time to fix the areas where FCP has been falling behind. Those areas are much more important than a UI overhaul.
June 25, 2011 at 12:34 AM #195091PJParticipant
I think the problem is that they ruined their differentiation between consumer/prosumer/ and professional users. Earlier they had perfect categories set up. iMovie for the average Joe. Final Cut ExpressHD for Youtube users and then Final Cut Pro for businesses/professionals/and the more advanced crowd. Unfortunately they are now trying to please both hardcore pros and higher up “Youtube” amateur enthusiast. They got rid of Express when they should have kept it, instead of dumbing down Final Cut Studio and getting rid of so many features.
I’m sure that after the harsh criticism it is receiving that they will fix most of the damage they did. Then again I haven’t used Final Cut Studio ever so I don’t have much room to talk.
June 25, 2011 at 2:46 AM #195092
I think some people won’t see the writing on the wall….. brodcast tv will die. Hollywood will die.
Direct to web tv and movie making is the future.
June 25, 2011 at 7:33 PM #195093
I love how timing works sometimes. I can’t tell you how close I was to trading a $45k Adenaline suite for a $5k FCP 8 suite. It was the plan. Now, man, can you appriciate the sweet affordable upgrade paths by Avid for dudes like me? This is not only an Avid-saver, it’s a great great Avid booster and I’ll get to enjoy that along with em.
June 25, 2011 at 8:51 PM #195094Luis Maymi LopezParticipant
I read some awful reviews about, it was sad. I can’t believe they did such a bad job. There are people saying is iMovie Pro, that hilarious. Personally I didn’t like Final Cut Pro before and no matter all the things said about how powerful it was, I wouldn’t change it for the Adobe Suite, no chance. If I where to change my NLE I will definitely go AVID.
June 25, 2011 at 9:00 PM #195095
Haha, I’m looking into Avid right now, Grinner.
June 26, 2011 at 3:42 AM #195096Luis Maymi LopezParticipant
Jajajaja you all need to read this, is hilarious!
June 26, 2011 at 4:29 AM #195097PJParticipant
so now I’m glad I didn’t buy a mac laptop because I can just get adobe on PC now
June 26, 2011 at 5:20 PM #195098
well, good, bad whatever… if asked to describe FCPX I’d have to say “Pretend Steve Jobs left iMovie and Final Cut Pro alone for the weekend on his harddrive with no birth control, and 9 months later out pops thier Ba$trodized luv child, FCPX…… “
Give little Ten a chance, I’m sure it will mature into something good.
June 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM #195099
I’ll more than likely invest in FCP X within the next 12 months. Mistake or no on the early release version, it’ll iron out and be a useful tool, though I will hang onto my FCP Studio as well, so long as it works with my current Mac Pro system.
People screw up. Companies screw up. Often unintentionally, or via mistaken concepts, products or management (actually MIS management – think Amiga that used the Toaster/Flyer system to kick off a powerful desktop editing revolution). Sometimes the mistakes generate something good, oftentimes not.
Apple has the ability to built out FCP X and make it what it could become. I’ve seen people and manufacturers jump ship or abandon Apple over the years, but all seem to have a way of coming back sooner or later. In fact, because certain printer companies, etc. once abandoned the Apple I will no longer purchase their products that now once again support Apple connectivity.
Yeah, loyalty is loyalty and then there’s “blind loyalty” … well, that’s not me, blind, but I will stick with a known entity and proven series of products, services, software, etc. until it is a bit MORE obvious that they’re headed out the back door, before moving to something else just because it’s currently cheaper and “sharking” off a perceived Apple bonehead booboo.
June 26, 2011 at 10:38 PM #195100TheDVshowParticipant
FCP had a great foundation and now Apple decided to tear it all down and rebuild it again from scratch. What happens to all of the professional editors, the certified trainers, all the books, the supermeets, the websites – all the investment of time and energy was for nothing.
Relying on future upgrades or waiting for it to become what
it already was is just weird – it doesn’t make any sense.
June 26, 2011 at 11:09 PM #195101
I think the main mistake here was Apple marketing descisions.
Had they called the product “iMovie Pro” and simply ignore Final Cut Pro for a couple years until Imovie pro was percieved as the better editor by the market in general… there’d be little if any negative remarks about it…
So… what is in a name?
June 27, 2011 at 12:34 AM #195102
There are MANY industries, software among them, where 3rd party developers, users and assorted professionals invest time energy and money into expanding on the base only to find that base gone for a myriad of reasons from mismanagement to simply the whims and disfavor of the consumer/user.
Change is inevitable and with it come those who are washed along in a wake of doing it over. You think people who write books for dummies believe their products will have infinite shelf life, that today’s favored cold remedy will be tomorrow’s “go to” product, that last year’s SEO tome will continue to be the up-to-date resource, or even the tools you once invested in for standard U.S. measure, those Craftsman and other brands that last forever without wearing out didn’t eventually have to be replaced or added to a full metric set.
We’ve biiiitched about 4-track to 8 and 8-track to cassette with quarter-inch and smaller widths. We’ve moaned the loss of floppy 5-inch-plus floppies to 3.5’ers. We’ve lamented going from NO floppy to USB, Firewire, IDE, SATA, 5400 rpm, 7200 rpm, 10,000 rpm HDs. And the list of changing technology goes on and on and …
Granted, nobody fussed much about the move from VHS to S-VHS, digital and beyond. Well, some did … those who had to purchase new units, new batteries, new cables and new recording media, change their editing approach, etc. due to flat out replacement of “whatever.” And all the books, how-to videos and other stuff that was good while it lasted for linear, digital, etc. editing, editing systems or even editing standards.
Just saying, there’s a LOT of pundits from both sides of the street out there, just as we have armchair coaches and umpires … people who know better but not really. There’s a lot of stuff being parroted by people who simply have NO idea … “I didn’t READ the health-care bill, but …” what’s what, just joining in on the “I know better” than this company or that corporation. Hey, where’s their billion dollar buffer.
The solution to all this Apple brouhaha is simple: buy it and use it, or not test it and critique it, nor not; keep using FCP Studio versions, or not. Under the present situation everybody using some favorite version of FCP still has the option to do just that. All the 3rd party stuff is still available, notwithstanding Apple’s current withdrawal of the favored Studio version from sales, and the software, and the OS and the machines to make it work. All the books, manuscripts and stuff are valid for the respective users of that particular version or product.
Nobody TOOK AWAY anything from the established users. They still have what they had and this industry like any other has to go with the flow and adjust, fall back, regroup, repurpose or go away based on what they can or cannot adjust to.
June 27, 2011 at 1:30 PM #195103
I disagree, Don. Their mistake isn’t necessarily their marketing. It’s their secrecy. At NAB 2010, Steve Jobs said, “It would be AWESOME,” but Apple never said what their plans were. After seeing the advancements Avid and Premiere made in 2010, then seeing them advance even further in 2011, how do you claim your own product is AWESOME when it’s less capable?
If they lost interest in providing a pro app, they should have said something. 3rd party developers weren’t even in the loop. None of them have a legit solution for external monitoring, and only a few plug-in manufactures were given a heads-up.
June 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM #195104
“Secrecy” is actually a part of their overall marketing strategy.
To steal a tag line from the Motorcycle racing industry… (which is “Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday”) Apple has consistently used “leaks” to fuel speculation for viral marketing months and sometimes years ahead of the official announcements, but when it comes to announcing.. Apple’s overall strategy is to “Announce on Sunday, Sell on Monday” so to speak, the products are generally ready to sell when the product is announced. So in Final Cut x’s case they DID give a heads up, before the official announcement/release.
If they had simply announced their plans to release “iMovie Pro”, then proceeded to roll out fast bug fixes and advanced capabilities and made an “Export to Final Cut Pro” option in the menu, and then proceeded to let Final Cut die slowly, nobody would be complaining.
Naming it Final Cut Pro X was a marketing bet that backfired. A simple attempt to give the new editor “Instant Street Cred” that flopped.
June 27, 2011 at 2:57 PM #195105
That’s a good point. I suppose secrecy is part of their marketing, and therefore their marketing was the problem.
But they certainly didn’t give us a heads up. I’m not talking them simply saying, “Hey, here’s a sneak peak and its coming in June.” I’m talking about demonstrating what the software does in comparison to the competition. They demonstrated FCPX at NAB, a trade show for professionals. They showed us nothing that a professional(one that owns a business) is actually interested in, but assured everyone it was ‘game changing.” I guess it’s “game changing” in the sense that we’re moving to a different NLE.
June 27, 2011 at 8:31 PM #195106
I’m looking at it from Apples POV. It aint liek they are competing with adobe or avid. They sell iStuff. Looking at the revenue coming in dorectly from FCP vs their overhead supporting it is a no brainer but I don’t think they thought out how man iStuff purchasers FCP reeled in for em. I mean, once ya go mac ya go all mac. Because of FCP, many users purchased a mac where they otherwise would not have. That led to their iphone, ipad and all of their kids’ electronics. By that, perhaps a bad move. Stepping back and look at that overhead though while they are focusing on far bigger things than video post-production, man I get it.
This is a great opportunity for Avid to get some of that market share they handed over to FCP and for adobe to claim the whole dang enchelada should avid fail to respond to this last chance to compete.
June 27, 2011 at 11:15 PM #195107
There very well may not always be Mac/Apple professional applications/hardware but there WILL always be options. Like Mad magazine’s Alfred E. Neuman says, “What me worry?”
June 29, 2011 at 10:53 AM #195108
June 29, 2011 at 2:30 PM #195109
Like windows movie maker? lol
I think we should all take the invitation to look elsewhere for professional NLE needs. It’s obviously not a market apple wants to dabble in.
June 29, 2011 at 5:06 PM #195110composite1Member
That vid is a riot. I remember a year or two ago we discussed Apple’s plans for their pro apps and many of you voiced these concerns. It’s a shame they’ve gotten rid of their lower-end versions and folded them into the one as you say. For my colleagues who rely on FCP, this sounds like a major pain. It looks like they are trying to wean power users off. Apple seems to be making their way to a ‘one-size-fits-all’ scenario with this. Though I don’t use FCP, I work with people who do and when they are having issues it gets on me as well. Hopefully, Earl’s faith will be well founded but I agree in that Avid and Adobe are now in a serious position to take over. Perhaps Apple is withdrawing from the pro market and this may be the first step.
June 29, 2011 at 10:02 PM #195111
Wean? Hell, they cut the chord and smacked asses without so much as a “good luck!”. I know a lot of one man banders and new world post houses that were heavily vested in FCP and they all have the same look on their face as I did when I did my first project on my new “HD native” Adrenaline suite. It’s a big WTF stare followed by a sigh, then just a long hug from the Mrs while trying to mute the whimpers. Are they screwed? Not how I see it. Who says they can’t float on version7 for another year or two? While I get their panic…. maaaaaan, chiiiiiiill. This has never been brain surgery. Aint nobody gonna die. Many great works of art have been made with nothing but a chisle and stone.
June 29, 2011 at 10:04 PM #195112CharlesParticipant
If you have FCP, you can still switch to AVID for under a grand at BH Photo. Unfortunately, I do not have FCP or I would be taking the leap over to AVID, as it is almost $2500 is out of my price range. Maybe I can get a cheap copy of FCP on E-bay that has never been licensed.
July 2, 2011 at 3:04 AM #195113AnonymousInactive
When you learn it, and know what you’re actually talking about, it’s a great NLE, well thought out, and very fast/easy to use. I and other professional editors are using it for a variety of project types, and loving it.
FCS3 still runs, will be supported on Lion, no reason to go spend money on something else, when what you have works just fine. I know pro’s still running FCP 5 on a G5, works just fine.
Come Sept/Oct, a lot of folks will see they spent a ton of money switching to other NLE’s needlessly.
July 4, 2011 at 4:39 AM #195114AnonymousInactive
Apple still have to work hard to improve so many features in FCP X, I had the whole yesterday trying to do my project in FCP X..the organization is very bad in this program and Customizing the windows is limited. I hate the tags and the name events in this Program, but the previous Fcp had the way of making bins and sequences. Fcp x does not Have multi came features and you really import the project from FCP7 or 6 neither the PSD (photoShop with it layers) The only things I like About FCP X is the interface, the Colour correction and it is faster..And also FCP users will not have a problem of importing difference video format in timeline..This FCP X is just good for someone who make a move from iMovie and if apple dont rectify these issues Eerlier, Premiere pro get me back.. I didn’t believe it when I heard in the launch of FCp X that Adobe and avid will stay at the second place!!! On my God I thought Apple is struggling to catch up with adobe speed, there are lot of things that Fcp users still struggling with that Premiere users don’t any more.
July 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM #195115AnonymousInactive
I’ve taken the time over the last couple of weeks to get to know FCP X, use it, do a full tutorial on it. I have used the old FCP for a while, and I have to say I actually really like X. You have to take the time to understand where things are, and how things are done. Some things may not be there that were there in previous versions (they really need to sort out the multicam thing, I know there is a way to do it sort of, but still), but you do have to sit back and ask yourself ‘Why do I need this thing’ – sometimes we get so used to something being a certain way that if it changes, or goes, we freak and seriously lament the loss of it, even though it didn’t add much value to our lives in the first place.
You will find in some instances that you need to forget everything you know already, and a lot of people are not good at doing this. You’ll lose them. But if you want to make intelligent choices yourself, don’t sit and ask others what they make of it (too many people mistake opinions as fact, and as we basically are sheep we tend to be swayed by others opinions, even if they mean nothing to us), but take the time to fully understand the product and functionality yourself.
The fact that it looks so much like imovie put me off initially, until I spent the time getting to know it and discovered it does everything I need it to do, and everything I did in FCP 7, only most things are actually now easier. But don’t take my word for it, really, just use your own head and don’t read another review until you have your own opinion.
July 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM #firstname.lastname@example.orgMember
I also took the time to use and take a tutorial on FCP X (thanks to Izzy Hyman atwww.izzyvideo.com). I think it’s awesome – I was trying to learn FCP 7 since the beginning of the year and kept going back to iMovie because of the time commitment needed to understand how to do simple things. Now I can just jump right in and everything is so intuitive that I can spend more time learning Motion and other software that will improve the quality of my videos. FCP X does everything I need it to, I can even do multicam – it’s just done differently and it’s simpler.
July 6, 2011 at 1:50 AM #195117composite1Member
Here’s a vid for those of you thinking about converting or adding Adobe CS5.5 to your workflow by Vincent Laforet the man who invented DSLR filmmaking and Adobe/FCP guru Richard Harrington. Now that most of my workflow is in the Adobe Suites, the ability of Premiere to work with other NLE’s makes my job that much easier. Apple better watch their back big-time!
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