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March 29, 2006 at 7:00 AM #41000AnonymousInactive
I have connected 4 new dvd burners to a PCI to IDE adapter card. They work but are amazingly slow. 8x fails and 4x takes 45 minutes to burn 3.8Gig.
I’ve tried connecting 1 directly to the IDE on the motherboard and it worked great. 8x burned same content in 7 minutes. (Same media brand).
The motherboard only has 1 IDE so I need to use the adapter card to connect 4. How can I increase the burn speed?
March 29, 2006 at 8:50 AM #174830AnonymousInactive
Try just burning one DVD disk on one of the DVD burners in your array. If the speed is back to 8X then your throughput on your MoBo is just not fast enough to feed 4 mpeg data streams at the same time for the (4) 8X burners you have. That would be a "bus line bottlerneck" issue.
Another possible problem… and I say "possible" could be available power from your power supply. With all of those devices hooked up, your system could be starving for power thus slowing it down. I would think you would need at least 450 watts or more and even that would depend on what kind of CPU and video card you have not to mention other components installed.
March 29, 2006 at 10:07 AM #174831AnonymousInactive
That WAS with just 1 drive. Even though they are all connected, I only used 1 drive.
Second, my power supply is rated for 550W. My motherboard is the Intel D975XBX with a Pentium D 2.8GHz dual core processor and 2Gig of DDR2 667 RAM. Plenty of power there.
I’ve posted this problem on several forums. 1 theory is that there may be an IRQ issue with the card slot. Too many resources to allow the card to operate properly. Given the problems I’m having, this sounds very likely. I’m going to try swapping slots tonight. Lets see if that fixes it.
March 29, 2006 at 10:42 AM #174832AnonymousInactive
Ok… Horsepower sure isn’t the problem.
It does come back to what looks like a bottle-neck, conflict or maybe even a PC setting issue. I’m assuming that there was some kind of driver needed for that card right?
I do like your theory on this.
What about DMA settings? I’m stabbing here but is there a place where you are able to set these drives to use DMA? It should be in your HARDWARE profile.
I guess I never heard of anyone trying this before on a regular PC let alone even being able too. My gut feeling is that you can’t do what you’re trying to do.
March 29, 2006 at 11:25 AM #174833AnonymousInactive
In my device manager, under IDE/ATAPI, there is 2 primary and 1 secondary channels. All are set to DMA. I can’t find this setting on the individual drive device.
The driver was installed and the device appears in the device manager as a SCSI controller.
This is a newly built computer which was specifically designed for video editing, DVD authoring and duplicating. Maybe no one has built such a system before but it must be possible since stand alone DVD duplicators are available on the market. What makes them so different? After all, its still a computer inside. The tower holds 5 optical drives and 5 hard drives. Certainly someone has max’d this tower out before.
If swapping slots, (or even assigning IRQs) doesn’t fix this, I may even try a new PCI card. This 1 is a few years old but barely used. Its an Ultra 133 TX2. I suppose the card could be bad but since this is a new system, its probably just configured wrong.
I deeply appreciate your help in solving this issue.
March 29, 2006 at 11:54 AM #174834AnonymousInactive
While I agree that duplicators are basically computers, they are configured a little differently because they don’t have multible HD’s, sound cards, graphic cards, network cards, modems and so fourth. Because of that they have more IRQ’s available for each of the optical drives.
Now by taking a PC with all of the above components and then add those extra DVD drives, I’m thinking that this is where the problem comes in. This is kind of why I liked your theory with the IRQ’s. You might be able to reasign these but then you might have problems with the other components.
Nonetheless all the best! Make sure you let us know becuase there are a lot of video junkies out here that would be very interested in doing what you’re attempting to do. Mainly me!
March 29, 2006 at 12:10 PM #174835AnonymousInactive
I only have the IDE card and a PCI X16 graphics card installed. I’m using on board 7.1 sound, (although its currently setup for stereo use). No extra sound card, no modem, no network card. I believe there is a built in ether net but its not in use. I need to find the IRQ listing in my system to determine what conflicts there may be.
Thanks again. It may be a while before I solve this but I will keep you posted.
April 10, 2006 at 2:15 PM #174836AnonymousInactive
I thought I recognized your call sign on that other Encore problem post… say did you ever get that DVD array working for you?
April 11, 2006 at 3:17 AM #174837AnonymousInactive
Yes and no. I connected 2 burners directly to the motherboard and 2 more through the IDE card. The IDE burners are still slow but the motherboard burners work right. I’m using Gear Video 8 to burn so I set 2 to burn slow and the other 2 fast. I can reload the fast ones 2 or 3 times before the slow ones finish once. I can get 8-10 discs and hour. Could be better but I’ll take it. I have a 5th burner but nowhere to connect it since I have 2 hard drives connected to the IDE card as well. These drives work fine with the card.
April 11, 2006 at 11:40 AM #174838AnonymousInactive
That’s to bad. I kind of figure that that wasn’t going to work the way you wanted it too but with technologies changing so fast, I wasn’t going to bet any money on it not working. Oh well I guess that’s why they make those duplicator towers.
Nonetheless you are still beter off than most of us with just 2 burners. 8-10 disks is pretty decent.
April 11, 2006 at 12:21 PM #174839AnonymousInactive
I haven’t given up completely on solving the slow burning. The hard drives connected to the card work normally so the transfer rate is high enough for the burners. Also, I set the fast burners to burn at 4x. The slow burners are also set for 4x but the actual speed is more like 1x. If I set the fast ones to 8x, I’m sure I can get more than 8-10 per hour.
By the way, the entire computer cost me $1400. A 5 disc duplicator costs about the same. Maybe a little less, but I can do ALOT more with this set up. It was definitely worth the try, and I wouldn’t consider it a waste of money. It does work. If your considering a similiar system, make sure to get a motherboard that has SATA connections for the hard drives, and 2 IDE ports on the board. My board only has 1 IDE, thus the need for the card.
Yes, my board supports SATA, but I have 2 older hard drives that are still good. Why waste them.
April 11, 2006 at 4:05 PM #174840AnonymousInactive
how on earth have you got more than one burner to run at once?
I have two installed on my Pc and want to burn with them both at the same time.
They are both on the same IDE and i have one other IDE for the HD.
None of the software i have (Nero 6.5, Premier and Encore) will allow me to burn more than one thing at once, so how do you do it?
I actually posted about this but got no reply.
April 12, 2006 at 4:41 AM #174841AnonymousInactive
A burning program called "Gear Video 8". Not only can you burn to multiple drives simultaneously, but different projects simultaneously. Go to http://www.gearsoftware.com
April 13, 2006 at 8:17 AM #174842AnonymousInactive
Because I was kind of intrigued on your venture, I did some research regarding your attempt to hook up multiple DVDs using a SCSI card. What was said was that a normal PC BIOS system doesnt directly support SCSI adapters in a PCI slot so that they can handle the throughput needed to maximize your ROM drives data rate and speed. The BIOS does support these PCI slots but they are all treated generically. In turn what is then needed is some software intervention so that any PCI card installed will work correctly on your machine. Its because of this that you are unable to bring your DVD ROMs up to full speed. It will work because of the drivers and software you installed but not at warp speed like ROM drives are designed for. Also an IDE BUS and a PCI BUS are not set up the same way. They run on different frequencies. The PCI BUS on a computer is the slowest of all of the BUS channels on a MOBO.
This is why I originally had my doubts on this working. Im like you in that Im always trying something new but when you sit down and think about it, why isnt everybody doing this? By now someone would have figured it out and it would be all over the world. Another thing is why do they make special DVD duplicators? I don’t think a company would risk make something like this if every one could make homemade versions at home. Sure these duplicators are a form of a computer but they must be configured very differently to the point that we cant replicate on our machines at home.
April 13, 2006 at 8:52 AM #174843AnonymousInactive
So if the card can’t be brought to full transfer speeds, why are the hard drives connected to it working perfectly? I moved an 8.5gig file from one of these hard drives and it took 9 minutes, yet I can’t burn 3gigs of data to a disc in less time? While I agree with you that duplicators are configured differently, why can’t a home computer (with enough balls to it) be configured the same way? Many home systems don’t necessarily have the computing power, PSU and other needed resources to accomplish it. I built this system with duplicating in mind, and I bought the powerhouse components to do it. I just happen to use an older IDE card that I had laying around.
In Feb ’05, I bought a Sony burner for $110. To make a 5 disc duplicator, thats $550 just for the burners. Add the tower, and everything else a 5 disc dup needs and maybe one could justify the cost. Last month I bought 5 Pioneer burners at $39 each. BIG difference in price.
Duplicator manufacturers are gonna have to lower their pricing to compete with people like me who build their own because technology is catching up with them. Not everyone builds their own computer so building a duplicator is that much less significant. And of those who do build their own computers, how many need a duplicator? Shame on them for not thinking of it. If I’m the first to do, then I’m starting a trend cause it will catch on. I just need to work out the bugs cause thats all they really are.
April 13, 2006 at 9:16 AM #174844AnonymousInactive
I here what your saying regarding HD’s working.
Question: How many hard drives do you have plugged into that SCSI card?
If more than one, have you transfered a large AVI file to both of them at the same time and if so where they both at full speed?
Nonetheless, all I can think of is that it stills comes down to the available software and drivers needed for the ROM drives to all work at the same time. Maybe the HD software solutions with this card is better or something.
But as I said eariler, why have I not seen or heard anybody else successfully doing this?
April 13, 2006 at 9:52 AM #174845AnonymousInactive
Sorry if I sounded hostile, it was not meant that way.
I have 2 hard drives on 1 36" cable, and 2 burners on the another 36" cable. 2 more burners connected to a standard IDE cable directly to the motherboard.
You asked why haven’t you heard of more people doing this? Perhaps its as simple as the software available. Most burning software available at convienient locations such as Best Buy, Circuit city, Staples and even Wal-Mart do NOT support multiple burners. These are the places most people will shop for computer needs. Adobe makes a long line of products, yet not everywhere that carries software will carry Adobe. Its a matter of where to shop. Mrwinkey wanted to do this but couldn’t find the software to do it. I don’t think newegg carries Gear products yet they’re huge. Lets face it, Nero and Roxio seem to be the most popular burning apps available right now, yet neither support multiple. I did hear somewhere that a version of Nero supports 2. but thats only 2. Lets not rule out the fact that most computers couldn’t handle the demands of multi-burning until recently. Cost of burners also kept people from building their own. All that has changed. Newegg sells towers that hold 5, even 10 drives, why are they being made if it can’t be done? Gear video 8, the least expensive of them, will burn to as many drives as I have connected.
Its quite possible that the old card and its drivers are not working properly with my new motherboard. Its the Intel D975X, which is much newer than the IDE card. The card drivers are the most recent available, but thet still may not be recent enough.
I will try moving large files to each simultaneously and see what I get.
Thanks for the input in this matter.
April 13, 2006 at 10:54 AM #174846AnonymousInactive
No need to be sorry! I sensed more determination than anger which is great!
Good point on software availability too.
Please don’t get me wrong for I am really hoping that you can figure this out. I bet there are a bunch of other guys like me reading this and hoping too. I was just more or less looking into this to see what’s preventing you from making this work. From what I found to this point, it didn’t look good but that doesn’t mean I was looking in the right place either.
Good Luck! 🙂
April 26, 2006 at 4:27 PM #174847AnonymousInactive
For anyone still curious:
I have talked with tech support from Promise Tech, the makers of the IDE card I’m using. They stated that the transfer rate is not guaranteed with optical drives. They do NOT test their products with optical devices. This is the root of my slow burning performance.
They did however recommend using SATA optical burners with their SATA controller card for the performance I’m looking for. I have not heard of SATA DVD burners but with a small amount of research, they DO EXIST. Up to 4 SATA burners can be connected to their card with great speed.
I guess the long and short of it all is that a home made duplicator is very possible with the right components. I was so close yet not quite close enough. I am still getting 10 discs per hour with 2 burning at what appears to be 1X and the other 2 burning at 4X. If I set the faster ones to 8x I can increase the total to closer to 16 per hour. Thats still not bad. I can live with this for now.
Anyone interested in building their own duplicator can use my findings and make necessary changes to accomplish it.
At least I now know why the 2 are slow.
April 27, 2006 at 8:32 AM #174848AnonymousInactive
Ill be totally honest with you. This whole time I kept thinking that this just couldnt be done effectively. The reason I thought this was that I figured by now with the millions and millions of PC users and hacks out there that someone would have been doing this already. Its really just a basic concept. Yet in the same thought I was pulling for you the whole way. All of the reasoning and comments made seemed to make sense.
What seems strange is that the controller card vendors didnt take it upon themselves to create or configure a card to do this because I have to think that there would be a market out there for this. The other interesting thing is that multiple HDs seem to work and they have a way faster transfer rate then optical drives. There has to be more going on there than meets the eye or something.
😯 Hum SATA optical drives? Never heard of that until now. I cant wait to see how that all goes down.
You know kkmac, I bet in another year youll be able to do what you set out to do. You just got ahead of technology a little bit. 😉
Good luck my friend,
April 27, 2006 at 1:59 PM #174849AnonymousInactive
The only version I ever used of Nero was the included software that came with a Sony burner. Of course it was a stripped down OEM version that only worked with that burner. You may be right about the multiple burners. My experience would NOT allow me to find out for myself.
I had mentioned the transfer rates being higher for hard drives than optical drives to the tech support guy and he couldn’t explain it either. I’m guessing it has to do with the device signature. Amazing how you can just plug in a device and the computer knows what it is, who makes it, etc.
I still wouldn’t call my attempt at a home duplicator a failure. I can burn 4 at a time. The speed of 2 is slow. Its a good practice to burn slower anyways to avoid errors. So instead of 1 at a time at 4x, I can do 2 at 4x and 2 at 1x. I’ve gone from 4 and hour to 10.
May 1, 2006 at 11:24 PM #174850AnonymousInactive
funny, i’m looking for a solution to a similar problem… nf4 mobo…
1 plextor SATA, 2 Sony IDE, 1 Sony 1394.
I can burn to any drive at max speed.
i can burn to the SATA, firewire, and 1 IDE at max speed if the source is from my array
i can burn on both IDE drives at the same time but it’s slow as hell… i figure 2-4x
i’m going to try some IDE to SATA adapters and move the IDE sonys to one of my SATA controllers and let you know if it improves anything
May 2, 2006 at 1:57 AM #174851AnonymousInactive
Last year I researched this same thing. I am not a PC geek but have 20 years of electronics experience in the Navy. It became apparent, after several hours of searching, that this was going to be a great investment in time and patience. I finally gave up and bought a 7 bay unit. One great advantage is that I can free up the PC for tasks for the edit bay. The acard system will not only burn, but I programmed it to run full scale verifications of the dubs. When the the burners automatically eject, there are no coaters. If a disc is bad, the drawer stays closed and the display shows which burner failed verify. Since getting this unit, I have never had a disc returned. If PCs could be used to do the same job, I don’t think companies would be building stand-alones. I did a tour of duty in the Navy’s electronics R&D lab, so I have a lot of respect for scratch building a unit.
May 2, 2006 at 1:58 PM #174852AnonymousInactive
My budget did not allow me to build a new system and purchase a stand alone dup. I figured I’d incoporate the 2. Technology may not allow computers to work completely the same way as duplicators but my effort has increased my turn around rate considerably. 10 per hour is better than 4. I’m sure its a matter of time, (perhaps this time next year), when it will work properly.
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