Seamlessly blend two separate shots together? Best way?

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    • #46065
      AvatarOrpheus
      Participant

      Here’s the lowdown: I need to pan around a room and seamlessly blend two shots together–same actor appears in starting spot, but then we pan over to that actor in a different outfit on the other side of the room. I want to do this without stopping the pan…and keep the camera moving.

      Worst case scenario we have to stop the camera on a picture on the wall and then pick back up from there after the actor changes costume…then it would just be a straight up cut that hopefully wouldn’t be too noticeable. Almost a stop-motion animation gimmick.

      Please be advised that I have Premiere Pro CS4 and After Effects CS4 if I can accomplish that shot in either of those programs, that would be great…

      I’m sure it’s possible, just don’t know how.

      Thanks for the input everyone!

    • #190287
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      easy shot.

      you need a sturdy, weighed down tripod with fluid head.

      you shoot the same shot twice…. one for each outfit.

      do your pan, start to finish on both shots.

      in the nle, you simply line up your shots with a simple cut, or cross dissolve in the middle.

      as long as you keep the lighting the same, and do a smooth pan on each clip it will be perfect.

    • #190288
      AvatarOrpheus
      Participant

      I figured the speed of the pan could throw off making the simple cut work…if they don’t match up. So that’s why I figured I would start and stop on a picture on the wall or something. But the cross dissolve could work….I was thinking that earlier but wasn’t quite sure on specifics. Still, the speed of the pan might throw it off, but it seems like it could work.

      Anyone else?

    • #190289
      Avatarpseudosafari
      Member

      I like Don’s idea for simplicity. But this brings to mind a more complicated edit by Andrew Kramer that I don’t completely understand. Here’s the raw footage (take note of the cut at :20):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-AVLhiSrrE

      and here’s the final product, with the edit at :20 (20 seconds in):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72WLLSrIhXs&NR=1

      I don’t understand completelyhow he did it, but some of the comments below the final product video (link #2) shed some light on it. Perhaps they’ll help and point you in the right direction. No matter what, PP and AE can get the job done–I doubt you’ll be short on softwre. Good luck!

    • #190290
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      Orpheus

      The answer is quite simple and you already know it. it’s just hard to achieve. You need to do two shot and the tripod needs to be in the exact same spot for both shots. Then you have to figure out a away to pan the camera at the exact same speed for both shots. They have motorized telescope tripods. I would look into one of those…see if you can rig one up to hold a camera

    • #190291
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      psuedo,

      that shot at :20 is a pretty simple shot. You can see the left edge of the first shot matches with the right edge of the second shot. The two shots are stitched together just like stitching together still photos of a panorama. Then a camera in After Effects was used to do the pan. Then there’s probably some rotoscoping going on to add more swat members.

    • #190292
      AvatarD0n
      Participant

      Hi Rob!

      I don’t think it unreasonable for a decent camera operator, with a couple practice tries to be able to manage a couple smooth pans, take a break for costume change then do a couple more smooth pans…

      I’d use a stop watch and a few practice shots..

      the real problems with pans is not getting the timing, it is getting smooth starts and stops… at least for me anyways… that is why I suggested doing the whole pan for both takes then doing the cut in the middle…

      mid way through, the pan, the speeds should be close enough

    • #190293
      AvatarOrpheus
      Participant

      I’m not quite to Videocopilot level yet, but I am practicing. Because this isn’t too serious of a project, I am going to try Don’s idea just to see if we can make it work!

    • #190294
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      yea i agree with you Don. I think with some practice, the effect he’s going for can be pulled off without one of those motorized tripods. Definitely requires some practice and rehearsals though

    • #190295
      AvatarCharles
      Participant

      I am wondering if doing the full pan and then have the transformed actor appear on a green screen shot would work. The only problem I can see is getting a clean green screen and imitating the same ligting; if you have a green screen handy you could use the opposite wall and have the same lighting. Just a suggestion but may work.

    • #190296
      AvatarOrpheus
      Participant

      If I can’t get the shot to work, we may have to try green screen. I did some test shots today and am going to try editing them together.

    • #190297
      Luis Maymi LopezLuis Maymi Lopez
      Participant

      You can see the Andrew Kramer SWAT Team behind the scenes here http://www.videocopilot.net/theblogshow2/blog-show-the-big-show-bowski/. Its not that complicated to do, but you need to plan ahead how you want the shot to be. For the panning shot you can take two static shots, one right and one left, then composed it together like is one shot and then simulate the pan with an After Effects camera. When you are doing this effect of duplicating people you CANNOT MOVE THE CAMERA at all, if you do the effects will be ruined.

    • #190298
      Avatarpseudosafari
      Member

      Thanks Sargehero. That was a fun watch (and as always with Kramer, I learned a lot).

    • #190299
      Avatarvid-e-o-man
      Participant

      Orpheus, if I understand Don, think the face of a clock put your talent at 12:00, start your pan at 9:00, panpast12:00 continue around the clock past 9:00, have your talentchange costume, start your pan again at 9:00, past your talent at 12:00 continue around to past 9:00. With your Camcorder lockedon super steady tripod, walk a steady pacearound tripod to get the sametime for complete circuit for each pan.Cut the two clips together on the timeline in your NLE. This seem like the simplest solution. If you have a tough time making the pan of the two shots at the same pace, you might start your pan at an earlier point (6:00) and pan all the way around past your talent and continue past 6:00 to 9:00. The longer time panning should give you a smoother pan with more ‘room’ to cut the clips together in post smoothly.

    • #190300
      AvatarCraftersOfLight
      Participant

      If the pan arc is not too great, another method would be to lock the camera with a wide enough shot to cover both talent positions. do your two shots with the talent in the different costumes, splice in your nletimeline and using keyframing zoom in and pan the shotin your nle.

    • #190301
      AvatarPJ
      Participant

      I think this shot is best done with simplicity, as most of the people here do too. You could try splicing your pans together but I feel like that would be pretty difficult to get just right.

      What I would do would be to shoot your character doing what he or she should be doing and then have them stand still at the end of their take and walk out and get changed. Do not move the camera! Then once he/she is changed and is on the other side, I would go ahead and pan at whatever speed you want to the character. At the end all you have to take out is the empty spot that occurs when the actor is off of the camera and put it together with the pan that happens seconds later. This way you only have to take one shot and lining up the shots in your editor won’t be so problematic.

      There are a couple problems with this method though. Depending on how fast you pan and what side your actor is standing on, you could have the problem of your actor disappearing.

    • #190302
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      having a simple shot is the best thing you can do. Since if you want to modify or adjust something in the rare end its not quite complicated to do
      because of the simple basis you established.

      Haley@video editing

      Arkansas

    • #190303
      AvatarCraftersOfLight
      Participant

      Another option to hide the possible different pan rates, have an object mid pan that you may stop at for the briefest of moments, using that pause to hide the splice.

    • #190304
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I have seen some cheepie wireless PAN/TILT heads on eBay. I’m talking like $20-$30.. The pan and tilt rates are adjustable on the remote.. If that doesn’t bust your budget (and who couldn’t use a new utility toy?), you might look into those.

      It’s a platform with the tilr/pan mechanism underneath that just screws onto your tripod either in place of the head or attached TO your regular head..

      That might keep your zoom at least closer on shot-2-shot than the human eye estimates. I find when I try to do it “by hand,” I always slow down the second shot “imagining” that I’m going too fast..

      Just .02, and you’re paying too much for it..

    • #190305
      Avatarartsmith
      Participant

      The problem with smooth pans of this nature, is the body contortions sometimes required to get smoothness over a wide pan-angle. I have done some pretty wide pans, but only where they convey useful information. The problem is that you must ‘rehearse’ the panning movement once or twice, firstly to see if it is practicable, secondly to ensure that you anticipate the body position you will have to assume as the pan is completed, (the first part is easy). As a rule, I would avoid pans which don’t allow the complete sweep of movement to be accomplished without having to move your feet, as, for me at least, it is at the moment you are required to ‘step’ that the continuity seems to be broken. By ‘anticipating’ the range of movementand positioning your feet roughly where they would need to be mid-pan, would seem to be the way to go.And………good luck!

    • #190306
      Avatarvid-e-o-man
      Participant

      Just a thought about the smooth pan and foot movement. If you could extend the handle on your tripod so you could stand well clear of the legs and tripod handle, this might allow a smoother pan especially in the center of the pan where you might have to stepback to allow the handle to pass in front of you. I tried this as a dry run (no camcorder running) and found that if I attached the extended handle to one finger on one hand with a rubber band, I could achieve about 180 degrees with what seemed like a smooth pan. Not a scientific study but might be headed in the right direction.Certainly would take some practice to allow for close to perfection. Hope this helps.

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