Premiere Cs3 .. Best FLV export settings for web?

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    • #44973
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      Does anyone know the best .FLV export/compression settings for web use (youtube, etc)?

      I’ve tried, and failed, to come up with the right variables for a quality result..under 100mb.

      Here’s an example of what quality I’d like to have…argh….
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKKDNl9zeZI

      Thanks

    • #187630
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Cstina,

      For delivery to the web you need to export directly to .flv when uploading to youTube. No one quite gives you the details, but to get good quality you need a dual pass encoder. Both Sorenson and ON2 provide these, currently these are the ONLY companies who provide this. Encode using dual pass rendering at 300-400 kbps into flv format and upload this directly to youTube. This will give you the quality you are looking for.

      The CS3 programs you get bundled with Adobe software provides single pass encoding. Check out some of the videos I’ve posted on my front page to see quality. Fast moving content, transitions, water, fur, and vibrations always cause jittery encoding results, but if you have talking head footage like the one in your youTube media, you should have no issues with a good transcode.

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    • #187631
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      Thanks. I’ll look at them today πŸ™‚

      Are you talking about FlixExporter and Squeeze? Those particular products?

      Do you have an opinion about which format/settings are considered "best" for saving in Cs3 before tossing it into On2 or Sorenson?

      The reason I ask is, I’ve compressed a 600+mb .AVI to .FLV before with various settings (using Total Vid Converter) and the output was always above and beyond 100mb…and I’m trying to stay under that threshold size.

      Thanks again.

    • #187632
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Cstina,

      Correct, On2 has Flix and Sorenson has their Squeeze product.

      Good quality input works best. If you don’t have camera shake, if your lighting is good, and your transitions don’t have too much fade in/out. Your 600MB 720 x 480 pixel AVI file will show a significant decrease in filesize when you take it to 320 x 240 pixels at 300 kilobytes per second. I’ve noticed a 12 – 15 times reduction in filesize going from DVD quality to online quality delivery. For your 600 Mb file you may be looking at 60Mb after dual pass encode. I find that the first pass reduces file size, and the second pass increases quality and reduces filesize further.

      ==================
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    • #187633
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      Great πŸ™‚ This thread and your others have been really helpful!

      I downloaded SorensonSqueeze 4.5 and the interface is surprisingly user-friendly….

      There’s just one aspect I can’t figure out, maybe you know?

      In the "Format/Compression" column, there are several presets, listed below, all of which can be modifed:

      112K
      1Mbps
      256k
      384k
      512k
      56k_Aud
      46k_Dial_up
      786k
      Broadband_Aud
      CD
      Lg
      Sm
      VP6_112k
      VP6_112k_Stream
      VP6_1Mbps
      VP6_1Mbps_Stream
      VP6_256k
      VP6_256k_Stream
      VPS_384k
      VPS_384k_Stream
      VPS_512k
      VPS_512k_Stream
      VPS_56k_Dial_Up
      VPS_56k_Dial_Up_Stream
      VPS_768k
      VPS_768k_Stream
      VPS_CD

      I’m not sure which one to choose as a "launch point" to apply modifications, such as 2-pass.

      For example, if I choose 512k, this page pops up with its variables:

      I know I’d change the "Method" field to VBR 2 pass, but do you have any suggestions as to what I might alter in the other fields to generate the best FLV for web?

      Thanks.

      P.S. Great wedding vids!

    • #187634
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Cstina,

      Thanks for the kind words !!! The Wedding Videos are from videographers nationwide who use my service. A New Zealander and a Canadian recently started using my conversion service as I presented my products and services as a vendor at the WEVA show in Las Vegas, 2007. Yes, their work is really good; They spend their time being creative and selling this service so their clients can share this video with friends online. I transcode it for them so they don’t have to purchase software, learn it, spend time transcoding, worry about optimized file sizes or serving to the correct processor speeds like you are doing. X-D

      Alright, on to the real work at hand. Being online you are trying to save bandwidth because eventually you will take this media off a public website like youTube and put it on your own branded server so you advertise yourself, not the few hundred people who are riding on your good work. You have to pay for other people consuming your media. Think of it like a telephone bill. A certain amount of minutes are free. Then after those are used up, you pay for any extra. Every kilobyte extra on your file is a kb you will have to pay for. As you begin serving gigabytes of video information your bandwidth bills will become hundreds of dollars a month, and that’s where the savings on kilobytes add to real dollar savings. If you aren’t worried about paying for bandwidth for any of this, consider your visitors bandwidth. Whatever you create they have to consume. If they can get a very similar experience without degrading quality at 1/4 the filesize you’re doing a good job as a computer developer by creating a tight, optimized file. Otherwise you get bloat. If you work on Windows then you are aware of bloatware in terms of software filesize. Like the newest versions of Windows or Vista requirements. Nice 4-8 Gb space taken for the files. Compare it to linux or any flavor of UNIX. Your user will appreciate your effort, even if they don’t realize the amount of time you put in, when they see a really fast loading, good looking file.

      Starting from the left hand screen going down. Bump down the audio, to 32 kbps and make it mono. Doing this reduces your filesize. Use the Sorenson Spark Pro type of encoding to save your visitor processor speed. ON2 takes longer to encode but looks better. Unfortunately for the same settings, it also takes your visitor more processing power to DEcode your video. So to make it easier on your visitor in 2007 use Sorenson Spark Pro. Near the middle or end of 2008 when you feel the majority of your visitors have powerful enough processors that they can consume your media, burn CDs, watch youTube, check their IM, visit a few different websites on multiple tabs in their browser, have a file sharing application running, and the few dozen other things they are doing while they consume your media, play it safe for now and go easy on their video decompressing processor. While creators of media have powerful processors because they need to encode to Sorenson or ON2, most of your average visitors just want to check their email, see some good video, then get on with their life. So they don’t spend their money on getting the fastest processor.

      You want dual pass to create a smaller filesize and optimized video, that’s why you purchased Sorensen’s software. Please don’t use this software and then choose 1-pass. You may as well not have the software; the major reason for spending the $249-449 is for dual pass encoding. The art of good compression is knowing how tightly you can compress. You have to play with the Data Rate, I can’t give you a solid answer on this option. For 2007 when about 70% of people are using broadband across the united states if your visitors are from the US the average bandwidth rates shared across multiple network downloads should be safely between 300 and 400 kbps. Dial up users are out of luck, they just won’t be able to consume your media at their 56kbps connections. But with the wide range of broadband available, from rural areas, libraries, shared connections, up to very high speed users, 300-400 kbps will be a good average range to meet 90% of your user needs. Some people will not be able to consume your media no matter what you do. It’s important to note that while you set separate encoding variables for audio and video, they add together to give you the total, so don’t forget to check what the top right number says, next to Total Data Rate. This is the data rate you are serving to your clients, the average your visitors need to be able to withstand, the pipes they need to have in order to view your media. If for a moment their wireless goes out or they are sharing bandwidth in the corporate office and a large Excel document floods the network or the online service is particularly slow that day and you serve a very large bitrate your file will become jittery. Play a bit, catch up, stop a bit, play some more, stop some more. So watch your total and optimize. Then check at a few dozen locations so that you’re well aware of how a differing audience consumes your media.

      Another part of the art of creating great compression is knowing your user. I feel my users are average viewers. They don’t have amazing desktops or laptops, I serve media to average online video consumers who spend more time creating quality of life than quality of optimized, speedy computer. I serve media which is created for them, not for me. Height at 240 pixels. I vary my width to match the ratio of height. Corresponding to 4×3, that’s 320 x 240. If you’re using 16×9 footage, wide screen panoramic or 2.53:1 do the math and appropriately scale your pixel width to the appropriate height. For this option Sorenson does whatever you tell it, so do your fractions correctly. I think youTube is 4×3 aspect ratio; everything else is black bar’d.

      Click maintain Aspect Ratio so that even if your mathematics is off Sorenson will be forgiving and at least come up with the correct aspect ratio. The frame rate should be 1:1, keep the keyframes a ratio of what your end footage frame rate is. If you’re shooting at 25fps your keyframes should be 25, 50, 100. The tighter you keep your frame rates, for example if you keep keyframes every 5 frames your file will get correspondingly larger. If your keyframes are at 100 you will save on filesize. But on the other hand the keyframes in flv media have to do with scrubbing. If you want to have your user accurately scrub across your timeline you will have to put a tight keyframe in. Again, this is art. Optimize for what you expect your user behavior. I keep my keyframes at 50 for static media or talking heads. If the entire clip is heavy motion I take the filesize hit and encode 25 frames; I’m basing my keyframe numbers on having 25fps. Using 30 frames per second for your video is 5 extra frames on the computer processor which may not add to your user experience. See if you can create your media at 25 frames per second.

      I must give a great thanks to Video Maker at this point. I read one of their articles years ago on this very subject. If you can find that old issue of videomaker (sorry, I don’t recall the year or issue, probably a year or 2 years ago) they have some very good explanations for why to do these things, much better than I can give. After all, I’m no writer; I’m a practitioner of the art. I can say I am still perfecting the craft of online video encoding, but the experience and knowledge comes after having used enough variations to know what should work well.

      Ah, I almost forgot. After all this, you finally have your FLV file. You can now upload it to youTube and check if it works there. If it doesn’t you have the happy job of redoing the compression settings to create your optimal media.

      Good Luck!!!

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    • #187635
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      virtualscribe Wrote:

      After all, I’m no writer; I’m a practitioner of the art.

      Actually, you seem to be both…you’re very articulate and well versed (imo) πŸ™‚

      I think with your recent advice, I’ll be able to come up with a decent preset for web output. The main problem I face is that my videos are on the extreme side of high motion….. they’re football highlight/stats reels for students to send to prospective colleges. As with most ‘kids’ around that age, they also want a copy on YouTube. Btw, the sports ‘thing’ is only something I do on the side (for fun) …not for income. My ‘real job’ is documentary editing /slash/ flight attendant. So, I’m really lacking in exporting skills – for net viewing, argh.

      May I ask….I don’t know what your volume of individual pages/subscribers are on webvids.com, but it seems like you must take a real hit on your bandwidth each month. I guess you’re able to offset the cost with memberships, but did you find it overwhelming in the beginning? I was thinking of setting up a video site for some family members (my own) to share videos privately with each other, but I’d have no way to defray costs (can’t really get away with charging relatives..ha). So, was just curious.

      Thanks

    • #187636
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Cstina,

      My website is not webvids.com X-D it’s http://www.wedclip.com

      Yes, when you commit to delivering very high bandwidth applications online you have 2 charges. 1 for storage and 1 for delivery. It turns out that storage is very cheap; the bandwidth charges are the expensive ones. I cannot afford to give media away for free, even youTube can’t afford it forever, that’s why they are beginning to advertise to offset their charges. If you are planning to deliver media online you have to first create a solid business plan for getting revenue from your website. While it can be fun to give away your talent to football students or family, you pay for what you are giving away. My monthly bandwidth charges when I first began ranged from $300 – 500 for delivery. As time goes on people never watch less media, they continue to watch more. They return and watch things they like. They tell their peers about things they find interesting. My business plan is charging a set value for media. I sell both Business to Business and Business to Consumer. I package compression, online delivery, password protection, and a guestbook inside my charges to offset my cost. Most times I make money, on popular media I always lose money. People who purchase from me see the value in letting a web developer create a polished, efficient solution, they know that it is expensive to create this on their own, and are willing to pay for convenience.

      You can always be generous and continue to do work for free for everyone who asks by paying for all this yourself. It’s very common in the video industry. I’m a web developer, it’s also very common in the computer industry. When you are professional and good at what you do people around you feel as if you would do free services for them, because they know you so well and it won’t really take up too much of your time, and your experience would increase by giving away free services. The risk you run is that they get upset when they can’t get more, "But youTube and googleVideo are giving things for free, why can’t you? " The honest answer to that is google and youTube are gaining new eyes which can sell more advertising. I’m a sucker; I still do a lot of work for friends and family because I fundamentally believe that unless they see good work they won’t pay my peers for that quality of work.

      I don’t envy your position with your family, I would bow out of the responsibility early before people think you owe them. Plan on setting aside $100/month and about 10-20 hours to support them so that you can provide this service for them initially. This would be for their 5 minute baby and doggie clips after they have been converted from raw video to an efficient codec. Your job in this is to set up the online converter, probably ffmpeg like youTube and google, the password protection, pay for the bandwidth and storage costs, and come off looking like the nice person you are. It will only cost you $1200 a year and 100 hours of your time in the beginning. The cost will rise exponentially as they put up more media and consume it on your dollar. I see no real business model here, it’s philanthropy. I admire philanthropists. They provide valuable knowledge and guidance to build successful communities. Why Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are devoting hundreds of hours each year and billions of dollars to create real solutions for ridding the world of disease. Let me know how you decide to make this work for you!!! πŸ˜€

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    • #187637
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Personally, I wish I could still provide our business services for family. I suppose I still do some, for my most immediate family (wife, parents, etc), but I’ve unfortunately had to enact a strict policy in my business not to offer any "family discounts" anymore.

      Essentially, this resulted from a wedding we did late last summer for one of our cousins. She wanted us to do her wedding, and of course, they wanted a family discount. We did practically give away our service, but because the wedding was smack dab in the middle of our busy season, I told them up front that their video would be completed in my spare time, as I had to give my paying clients priority in video editing. Because of this, I told them that their final video might take as much as three or more months to complete, which they were agreed to readily. After all, we were giving them this for literally next to nothing (we pretty much charged them for the video tapes and the hotel stay, since the wedding was a long way out from our home). Anyway, long story short, three months later, I’m getting ready to deliver their DVD’s like I promised, and the Bride’s sister shoots me this nasty email saying how terrible we are, and accusing us of scamming her family out of the money they sent me. Really, this email was bad! The worst part was that I still had two more weeks before I said they would get their video at the latest. Anyway, as a result, we no longer do any discounted service for family. But that’s just me. That was the only complaint I’ve ever received from over 10 years in the video business, and from a family member, no less!

    • #187638
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      Just a quick question…

      My host plan is 3500 GB Bandwidth per month. Given I’d be dishing up .FLV files, would 3500 GB be far too minimal? I know it depends on hits per video, but I average about 1000 "serves" per month w/ an average of 15 mb per video = 15000 mb = 15 GB. Um, I think that’s correct? 15 gig per month?

    • #187639
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Cstina,

      I’d be curious which ISP you’re using to get those high bandwidth limits. You are saying you are allowed 3 1/2 terabytes of data per month. From my experience that should run you about $600 monthly at current average dependable ISP prices for late 2007, less money if you have relationships with dedicated high volume hosting solutions.

      15Gb/month seems like a correct initial point to jump from, but I don’t follow your 3500Gb/month statistic. Are you sure it’s not 350Gb/month? At 3500 Gb you could run a peer to peer network.

      A bit curious to me is, how did you go from not being able to afford family hosting and just starting a video service to serving a thousand videos per month? Your math is correct, but you exponentially upped your video requirements in 2 posts, from novice to super advanced user. Just trying to follow along, I don’t get it.

      ===================
      Share Your Wedding Online
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    • #187640
      AvatarCstina
      Participant

      A bit curious to me is, how did you go from not being able to afford family hosting and just starting a video service to serving a thousand videos per month? Your math is correct, but you exponentially upped your video requirements in 2 posts, from novice to super advanced user. Just trying to follow along, I don’t get it.

      Sorry to be confusing. I’m talking about my numbers from YouTube. The football highlights I upload get served about 1000 times per month (or about 300 times per video after each game). I figure this would be about the same amount if I put them on my server, given the people who watch them are fans…and not just users who stumble upon them. So if I had the same amount of hits on my own server, then I’m trying to figure out if I’d have ample bandwidth. When we started talking about bandwidth, I thought maybe my server could handle that, especially since the quality on my server *might* be better than the way YT compresses them.

      As for family videos, I don’t think I could put them on my server because there are just too many, unlike a few 2-3 minute football highlight reels.

      The ISP does say it’s 3500 GB per month:


      and the link is here: http://www.vegas.lunarpages.com/basic-hosting/

      I can post my YT highlights here and then upload one to my server for comparison so you can see the difference in quality…even though the file sizes are about the same, under 5mb. I’m still trying to come up with a good preset for Sorenson, but once it’s uploaded, I can’t tell a difference.

    • #187641
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Stunning pricing, Cstina.

      Run with it; your hosting service has very open limits. See how long they will allow you to keep those high limits. They say it on their website, so use it and redline your delivery, serve up as much as you can as close to the limits they state. I know some ISPs have very high limits on paper, but if everyone used them, they would use the Comcast type imposed limits X-D

      Just 1 more piece of advice; try to make a profitable business out of this. Since you’re only paying $7/month charge your people for your footage and delivery. Let us know how you do; this is a very exciting time, and you’re providing a very valuable service by putting their highlights online. It would be interesting to know how many people switch from your youTube to your own server and how you make out financially. I think what you and people who are thinking like you are doing amazing things, keep it up, this could be a very healthy business for you. If you can get a few hundred for the highlights then you’re paying $7 and charging maybe $100-300 for the month. Once you set this up for one educational institution, shop it around and see if others are willing to do the same with you. When you can get 5 or 10 to do this and pay you for it you’ll be pulling in a few hundred to a few thousand per month, and your main job is conversion and uploads. I encourage you to keep doing this.

      I know quite a few people who are saying the video business is getting tight, and they can’t sell as much, and business is down lately. I feel that more video than ever is consumed and can be sold, we just have to change the way we do business. Instead of a pure play, "Here’s the DVD, pay me for each one you want me to create", this open minded kind of thinking by Cstina can generate very healthy revenues. Give away the content and chase the high dollars from people who hire you to create really good content. Well done ! The change in thinking is coming from grass roots efforts like this one.

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