Pre-blacked tapes?

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    • #38896
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows of a company or service that selles MiniDV tapes that come pre-blacked?

      I’ve searched online, and can only wonder why such a thing doesn’t exist. The benefits of blacked tapes in both production and post-production easily outweighs any cost there might be.

      Thanks.

    • #168913
      TheDVshowTheDVshow
      Participant

      http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/category-114.htm

      It is not necessary to black a DV tape before recording on it. However, some DV veterans recommend it for two reasons: it lays down continuous time code, protecting you from Time Code resets; and some think it helps shake loose dust and detritus left over from manufacturing, slightly reducing the risk of dropouts during critical recording.

    • #168914
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      [quote=”TheDVshow”]http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/category-114.htm

      Any services that charge in dollars?

    • #168915
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      videopunk Wrote:

      Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows of a company or service that selles MiniDV tapes that come pre-blacked?

      I’ve searched online, and can only wonder why such a thing doesn’t exist. The benefits of blacked tapes in both production and post-production easily outweighs any cost there might be.

      Thanks.

      It doesn’t exist because pre-blacking DV tapes is a useless waste of time. If you handle tapes properly, you will never run into a non-continuous timecode on your recorded tape. (Or you can use an editor that doesn’t care).

      On the other hand, taking a tip from PT Barnum (There’s a Sucker Born Every Minute), you may have given me an idea for a profitable business. Unethical, maybe, but profitable.

      Steve

    • #168916
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      compusolver Wrote:

      Steve’s made some good comments on these forums, but I’m going to strongly disagree with him on this one.

      If there were any validity and value to striping, then there would be a market for pre-blacked DV tapes. There was such a market for pre-blacked analog tapes because it was an issue then, but with most DV cameras, it isn’t an issue at all.

      If you don’t remove the tape between shots then you shouldn’t have a problem. It has nothing to do with memory, power or battery. When you stop the tape, most DV cameras will back up so that the last frame shot is under the heads. (The “End Search” button, if you have one, also finds the last frame shot). When you power-up again, the first thing the camera does is to read the timecode from the tape. If you remove the tape or advance it past the last recorded frame, you will get 00:00:00;00 for your timecode. This is poor procedure, but it is what pre-blacking the tape attempts to prevent. It almost assures that the heads will read a timecode when you power-up, but it’s no gurantee of a continuous timecode. In fact, it could *cause* a timecode glitch. The camera writes a new timecode with the video data. If you started recording one frame *before* the pre-blacked area starts, then your new timecode will not match the old (pre-blacked) timecode. When your camera starts up, the “end-search” function is defeated because when you start the camera, it finds a timecode under the heads. Which timecode did it find?

      If you are using a prosumer camera and getting timecode breaks, then you need to re-examine your tape handling procedures or possibly have the camera checked to make sure that the “end search” is working. Pre-blacking only hides the problem, or exacerbates it.

      Steve Mann

    • #168917
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      compusolver Wrote:

      As for the other point, when a camera starts flashing the warning that you need to run a head cleaner tape through it, you only get a few seconds to shut down. You can’t yell “CUT!!!” in the middle of a wedding ceremony X-D Striping a tape reduces the chances of it leaving debris that would necessitate a head cleaning.

      This makes no sense to me. Your head cleaner warning is initiated by the firmware in the camera when the error-correction code has to has to fix too many soft data errors while recording. Striping the tape would only leave *more* debris behind to clog the heads.

      Head clogs are almost always (apparently) caused by mixing tape brands. I only use Sony tapes in my Sony cameras and I run the head cleaner tape every 50-hours. I’ve never had a “clean heads” indicator come on, even on my PD-150 that has almost 2,000 hours on the heads.

      Steve

    • #168918
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      compusolver Wrote:

      As for mixing tape brands, I know of no data regarding this issue.

      The data are purely anecdotal – yet compelling. When one experiences a head clog, it is almost always shortly after switching tape brands. This alone is a strong enough correlation that makes a compelling argument for the practice. Conversely, there are those who switch brands and never have a problem. This makes hard data impossible to quantify.

      For me, I have three Sony cameras that have run only Sony tapes for the past cumulative 3,000 hours of head time. I run the cleaning tape every 50-hours and never experienced a “clean tapes” error or a dreaded head clog.

      Steve Mann

    • #168919
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      I have never heard of having to strip a tape because there might be dust on it. I have no experience with this.

      i guess its okay if you are only doing it once. If you do it repeatedly then you are just wearing out the tape.

      I was just always taught, don’t turn off the camera.

      Oh, and another thing:

      Why would you need a market for something you can do yourself?

      Thats like asking for a market for labeled tapes with your name on them. you can do it yourself, so why pay for it?

      Compusolver: how did you lose a shot?

      I would assume that while you shoot you are keeping a shot log.

      Even if you didn’t have a shot log, you would shuttle through the tape later preparing an EDL before you even get to capturing.

      You don’t need to worry about losing shots if you are organized.

      If you are scared about timecode breaks not letting you get a clip than use AVID. AVID can have it’s pre roll custom set. So you can set your pre roll to 1 second then it will capture.

      This usually eliminates the break problem since it will start capture almost immediately.

      I am relatively new to this forum but i find myself agreeing with steve.
      I think it is a bunch of old wives tales.

    • #168920
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      Didn’t mean to insult you Compusolver, i just am used to writing down a shot right after I shoot it. I write it down really quick and can go back to it later for my EDL.

      As for multiple locations and turning off the camera, i always just fast forward a bit and then give the next shots new timecode. If i know what shots were shot when i know when to start capturing.

      As for me having lots of time on my hands, that is not the case at all. If you must know I already have a degree in video and i am just in school for my bachelors in digital media. I do freelance and i work in an equipment cage.

      I have 20 hrs of work.

      I have 17 hrs of class.

      I have about 5 hrs of homework a week.

      I do freelance nearly every saturday.

      I don’t have as much spare time on my hands as you may think.

      As for trying it with stretches of tape with no timecode in the middle, i always go by the rule of thumb of having five seconds before and after every shot. But if you had no timecode right up until the shot you need; then having a preblacked tape would come in handy.

      If you want a blacked tape you could probably take them in bulk to a dubbing house. I would bet it would be a bit costly though. Or you could just rent time on a deck and pick a blacking day of the week. I assume you were only doing this to new tapes.

      Im sure you know it wears out the tape just as much as regular use. Technically you should only record on a mini dv 5 times all the way.
      If you are using a DVCAM tape then thats diffrent. They have significantly less drop out.

      But hey, I’m just a snot nosed kid.

    • #168921
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      DVine Wrote:

      If you are using a DVCAM tape then thats diffrent. They have significantly less drop out.

      The ads say: “fewer dropouts” with DVCAM tape, but they don’t quanitfy what “fewer dropouts” translates to in the real world. All digital recording experiences dropouts. DV and DVCAM are no different. Dropouts (not to be confused with dropped frames) means that the data doesn’t agree with the checksum (or whatever error detection protocol the medium uses), and the error-correction has to fix it.

      This, by the way, is how your camera knows to flash the “clean heads” message – when the software has to work overtime on fixing dropouts.

      The DV protocol, which includes DVCAM, has one of the most robust error detection and correction algorithms ever developed. In other words, you would never know the difference because your camera (or deck) will hide the dropouts from you.

      Unless you reuse your tapes a LOT, as in ENG, all that you accomplish with the more expensive tape is makeing a tape reseller very happy.

      Steve Mann

    • #168922
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      I didn’t say to go out and buy DVCAM tapes in bulk, i was just talking about if you want to black out a tape a million times you might as well.

      I personally have had DVCAM tapes last quite a long time, longer than my regular minis. But i do A LOT of shooting, thats just me.

    • #168923
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      DVine Wrote:

      I personally have had DVCAM tapes last quite a long time, longer than my regular minis. But i do A LOT of shooting, thats just me.

      I can’t comment on the durability of my tapes since I never reuse them. I shoot, I capture, I store. At $3 each, it’s not worth the risk of reusing a tape only to later have an old client wanting something done with the original footage.

      Steve

    • #168924
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      thats cool, i store my raw on dvd. That way it is already digitized. The very good footage i dub to certain tapes i use for just that purpose. That way they are not compressed at all.

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