How can they do that? Copyright music!!!

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    • #38909
      Avatarpush-play
      Participant

      Hey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

    • #168943
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      push-play Wrote:

      Hey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

      In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.

    • #168944
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Be careful with copyright matieral. Its always a risk and being caught could be a rather unpleasant experience.

      These days its just plain silly to do that. They are lots of options.

      1. Use royalty free music (forget the days of cheese, its rather good now!)

      2. Use sofware to create your own. Take your pic, Logic, Reason, Fuirty Loops, Soundtrack, Garageband – all very good.

      3. Use a composer – they may composer free for you to begin with, or maybe they have something suitable, maybe they will scratch your back if your help them out

      There are so many options open to you. Just look around. Try searching for royalty free music or production music. Many libraries such as ours http://www.beatsuite.com do offer some free music downloads. Also our prices are rather reasonable, also 100% legal music.

      Quality does not always cost an arm and a leg. Hope this helps.

    • #168945
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      compusolver Wrote:

      … its OK to use copyrighted music that a client requests, in the video for the client’s use.

      It’s not that black and white. While some may argue “Fair Use” by the client, it’s a gray issue that to the best of my knowledge has never been tested in court. You can rationalize it in many forms, but adding unlicensed media to a wedding video is still a violation of copyright laws.

      Basically, if you are putting popular music on a wedding video that will be seen by ten people, it’s not likely to appear on the record label’s radar. (Disney seems to have a much more sensitive radar). If you are foolish enough to put it on your web site, you are inviting a letter from the label’s lawyers.

      Steve Mann

    • #168946
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      There are some funky places out there that do a slightly different version of the popular song in order to avoid the legality, and sell them in packages or by song as royalty free. There is a fine line in this area, but there is some grand music selections out there that sound so close to the original that nobody but the legal offices can tell the difference.

      Not a good example, I know, but this is the same variation on music law that allowed Weird Al to do what he did legally.

    • #168947
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I think we may launch a wedding music section in the future. Any other suggestions as to what music video editors may require?

    • #168948
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I haven’t checked your site yet, but the one style of music the no royalty free site has yet done up-to-par for me is heavy industrial rock with non-synthed guitars and well mixed beats. The background music for the game Quake 2 is about the style I’m referring to. It seems all the royalty free places have is techno-rock or classic rock. Nobody does the hardcore stuff or punk beats. If you had some good stuff in these areas, there’s a huge market for it in the x-games indy video crowd. I know I’d be much more willing to mass produce skate videos if I knew I wasn’t going to get prosecuted for the music use.

    • #168949
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      An excellent point, and I also agree with that.

      We are looking for skate rock/thrash and all kinds of good quality rock. Any ideas to source bands/musicians Im all ears!

      Will hopefully implement this over the next 2 months or so. As always I will keep you all posted

      Thanks for the feedback – its always welcome

    • #168950
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      You are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.

      Then you need to purchase the rights to it, thats why anime music videos are played so much on the internet.

      My demo reel has copyrighted music on it; just means i can’t hold a big meeti ng and say; look at me!

    • #168951
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      DVine Wrote:

      You are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.

      Ummm – Nope!

      I can’t think of a single exception in the copyright law that would cover this. (I am not a lawyer, but I am very sensitive about copyright issues and I am well-read on the subject and can point you to cites if necessary).

      As soon as someone other than you or your immediate family watch the demo, you are violating copyright. Copyright has nothing to do with broadcast or being sold, and profit or lack of it has absolutely no bearing on whether copyright has been violated or not.

      As far as I know, Disney is the only media owner ruthlessly enforcing their copyrighted material used this way. (Just put your demo reel online with Disney music on it, and you’ll hear from their copyright cops fairly quickly).

      The fact that almost everyone does it doesn’t make it legal. It’s just not at a level of occurance that gets on the copyright owner’s radar. Yet.

    • #168952
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I think as this topic is growing it only goes to show that their is much disinformation regarding intellectual copyright laws, both US and UK.

      Whichever way you look at at or view it does not change the law. Anything which is copyrighted may not be used unless permission has been granted. It is an illegal offense, for a company it is very serious to ignore this since the penalties can be huge.

      Again, their are many solutions to this problem. We live in a world full of music composers, producers, bands, artists. There are many royalty free music libraries and production companies creating and selling music for this exact reason, to avoid the pitfalls of copyright infringement and also to supply high quality music for professionals.

      The best thing is, it is even created to fit the mood of your production, whethers thats happy, sad, uplifting, reliable, trustworthy, whatever.

      I say again and I believe it, be creative, you should be original in production and not just latch onto commercial music, find something new and fresh and create your own style. If you have to use something that is well known, find a similar theme or have a sound alike composed.

      If anybody is stuck I would be happy to supply them with an alternative although I do understand that we cannot cover every style of music.

      Try me.

    • #168953
      AvatarBrian
      Participant

      At least in my experience “fair use” doesn’t have a solid definition. My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it’s for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don’t use the ENTIRE work.

      For example using 5-10 seconds of a copyrighted music piece in a demo reel when applying for employment should not get you into legal hot water.

      Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.

      Fair use also applies for the news:

      The Rolling Stones were in Boston recently- local TV and radio news is able to use small segments of the concert in their reports regardless of the copyrights. If they televised or broadcast the ENTIRE concert they step into infringement.

    • #168954
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      TheDVshow Wrote:

      … My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it’s for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don’t use the ENTIRE work.

      …Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.

      Fair use also applies for the news:

      The only thing you have right in your post is example of fair-use as it applies to news broadcasts.

      Profit or lack of profit has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with copyright violation. (Profits do figure into damage awards, however).

      Any unauthorized use of copyrighted work, even a small part of the work, is a violation. Fair use is deliberately vague to avoid codifying a definition of educational or news. What is or is not fair use is up to the judge.

      Steve Mann

    • #168955
      AvatarBrian
      Participant

      This is such an interesting topic I decided to invite an intellectual property attorney on the show.

      Listen in on August 29th’s podcast for some answers!

    • #168956
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Just a question… but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?

    • #168957
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Will do

    • #168958
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Jonathan Decker Wrote:

      Just a question… but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?

      No, I guess they fit in the “educational purposes” category… X-D

    • #168959
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      In the UK these all have to have PRS license to be able to play music to the public. Public Performance License (PPL).

      See http://www.prs.co.uk for more info

    • #168960
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Its usually the venue that has to pay the license, this includes gyms, leisure clubs, bars, restaurants etc.

    • #168961
      Avatarmatt01992k5
      Participant

      are royalties expensive?

      couldnt you just write a letter to the person/group and ask? throw up some free promotion and advertising in your work or set up some kind of similar deal?

    • #168962
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      ha ha! I wish it worked that way. Only no-name artists allow you to use their work (which usually sucks bigtime) just for including their name in the credits…

    • #168963
      Avatarmatt01992k5
      Participant

      well how much do you usually have to pay to get the licenses?

    • #168964
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Personally, I’m an ass.
      Since this is not my full-time job, I prefer to work with amateur artists (of which I highly recommend William Cushman, Justin Durban and Peter John Ross) for free, or sometimes even “forget” about royalties (don’t tell anyone, though πŸ˜‰ ).
      I don’t advise you to do the same.

    • #168965
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      To help understand royalties in music and royalty free music I will post an article that should help to keep things clear.

      Watch this spot

    • #168966
      Avatarmatt01992k5
      Participant

      waiting…

    • #168967
      AvatarBrian
      Participant

      Well, August 29th’s podcast, as promised, contains info on copyrights…listen in for the “10 biggest myths concerning the law and video production” with business and intellectual property attorney Brian LeClair:

      http://www.thedvshow.com/2005/08/dv-show-podcast-for-august-29-2005.html

    • #168968
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Matt,
      It usually varies depending on source, and intent of use. It’s best to hire an attorney to wade through the legal documents. All of the rights stuff is set up with the record company not the performer. So even if brittany says yes to you, you’ve gotta get her bosses permission. X-D

    • #168969
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      SteveMann Wrote:

      push-play Wrote:

      Hey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

      In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.

      Thats what I think^^

    • #168970
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      So, turn them in to the cops.

      j/k

    • #168971
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      my demo reel has copyrighted music and i was taught in copyright class that was fine. I just can’t sell or televise it without purchasing the rights.

    • #168972
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      DVine Wrote:

      my demo reel has copyrighted music and i was taught in copyright class that was fine. I just can’t sell or televise it without purchasing the rights.

      Copyright class?

      Well, if your instructor said this, he is flat out wrong.

      You can put all the copyrighted stuff you want into your demo reel, you just can’t show it to anyone. When you display or exhibit the work, you are in copyright violation. When you mail a copy of the demo to a producer or hiring manager, you are distributing the work, thus violating copyright. If you put the demo reel on the web, then you are way over the line in copyright violation territory.

      Many wedding videographers are in that latter category.

      The fact is, there’s probably not many video pros in the Television or Film industries whose reels don’t contain any copyright violations. Most of them, however, don’t put their reel on the web.

      Bottom line is that when anyone outside of your immediate family sees your reel, it’s in distribution and use of copyright protected music or images is a violation. The reality is that almost everyone does it and to my knowledge, no one has ever been busted for it. (I do know that some wedding videographers have received “cease and desist” letters for putting demos that contain protected works on their web site).

      [By the way, since your original post mentioned it – Sale or profit – or lack of profit – has absolutely NOTHING to do with copyright. If a violation occurs, the copyright owner doesn’t care whether you made any money from it’s use or not or if the use is for a non-profit charity. It’s still a violation. Profit only comes into the equation when determining damages.]

      Steve
      IANAL

    • #168973
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      That’s why Audition’s loops are so darn helpful. Just make your own music, dude. πŸ˜‰

    • #168974
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      That’s why Audition’s loops are so darn helpful. Just make your own music, dude.

      Exactly! I have very little music experience, and I was able to import my wedding video intro into Audition and create a custom wedding theme with ease!

    • #168975
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Audition is grand! It’s just hard for me not to get distracted by the variety. I have ADD pretty hardcore. πŸ˜‰

    • #168976
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      I would be interested in hearing what you’ve done with Audition.

    • #168977
      AvatarDVine
      Participant

      He said we could as long as we were students; but that later on we would either have to redo the music or get the righs to continue showing it.

    • #168978
      AvatarSteveMann
      Participant

      DVine Wrote:

      He said we could as long as we were students; but that later on we would either have to redo the music or get the righs to continue showing it.

      If you use the reel to look for a job, then the instructor is flat out wrong. As long as the reel is used for educational purposes, I.E. training, final exam, or post-grad entry application, then it probably falls under the educational umbrella.

      Looking for a job is not an educational use of copyrighted materials.

      Read the copyright law yourself – http://www.copyright.gov – There is no blanket indemnification from copyright laws just because you’re a student.

      Steve

    • #168979
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I’ve heard teachers tell me this before too… But with the new alertness of the music corporations it’s simply better not to risk the legalities.
      A lot of “Broadcasting” teachers haven’t actually looked that deeply into the matter, since they don’t have to worry about showing their reel anymore. πŸ˜‰ By the way, You can use whatever music you like, so long as no one, but you, watches it.

    • #168980
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I would be interested in hearing what you’ve done with Audition.

      Sure! I’m slightly busy right now but I’ll try to get a link up soon.

    • #168981
      Avatarbonzer
      Participant

      There are alot of great sounding Indie bands out there who are often looking for exposure. I have honed my video skills with many such bands and they are usually very happy for me to use their music.

      A web search for “Indie Music” is a start, and check out (shamless plug) http://www.tractorgrease.com to see musicians and videographersworking together, both artists need exposure.

      bonzer

    • #168982
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      OK, let me just say right now, this ISN’T the greatest wedding video ever made. It was one of my first ones and I learned a lot from it. So try and just listen to the music X-D

      Also, I didn’t really spend a lot of time on the music. I just slapped it together and I didn’t really know the program all that well. With that said:

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7781704871857146280&q=%22Wedding+Intro%22+playable%3Atrue

    • #168983
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      To “thebeatsuite” and anyone else who’s interested in rock of the heavier variety, I’d love to hook you up with De’esis. (www.deesistheband.com, or http://www.myspace.com/deesis to hear them)

      They even recorded a non-rock song for my last film. If anyone wants great rock for their film, of any type, I have friends in all the right kind of bands, good bands, just let me know what you’re looking for! director_nikki@msn.com

      -Nikki

    • #168984
      Avatarbirdcat
      Participant

      Rocktooloud Wrote:

      OK, let me just say right now, this ISN’T the greatest wedding video ever made. It was one of my first ones and I learned a lot from it. So try and just listen to the music X-D

      Also, I didn’t really spend a lot of time on the music. I just slapped it together and I didn’t really know the program all that well. With that said:

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7781704871857146280&q=%22Wedding+Intro%22+playable%3Atrue

      Hi –

      The version of Pachelbel’s Canon you used is quite nice (like the bells – nice touch).

      You said you used Adobe Autition to create it? Just curious how that product works and if I would need to be a musician to use it (I already use Sony’s Acid and Voyetra’s Record Producer Pro).

      Thanks.

      Bruce

    • #168985
      AvatarEndeavor
      Participant

      I use audition and I’m defititely no musician but you need a little know-how in the way of audio editing to get you started. Audition is a very good tool for audio editing, sound cleanup, and music creation. 2 Thumbs up (IMO)!

    • #168986
      Avatarphillips719
      Participant

      If you guys don’t mind doing some reading, here is a website that explains pretty much anything you would want to know about copyrights, licensing and such. Seems to be a lot of variation of opinions on this forum.

      http://www.soundexchange.com/licensing101.html

    • #168987
      AvatarVideoman
      Participant

      Hey, unless you pay a fee – you can’t use it. What the hell do you think copyright means any way – it’s ok if I use it just for me or if I show friends?

      If your a student you can use it for educational purposes, but you can’t use the whole piece.
      Shhheeeezzzz. Use Audition or use royalty free, or public domain music

    • #168988
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      I know it’s late but you asked for some samples of what’s possible in audition. Here’s a song put together with no hard thought, simply using the supplied loops and no cutting. In other words, this is a hyper generic slap together. I used it for a music bed once.

      http://www.xonikz.com/Audios/Rock%20On%20Dude.mp3

      Most of the rest of the Mp3’s I posted in the Audio/Mp3 section of my site were made combining FLStudio4 with Audition.

    • #168989
      AvatarEndeavor
      Participant

      Videoman Wrote:

      Hey, unless you pay a fee – you can’t use it. What the hell do you think copyright means any way – it’s ok if I use it just for me or if I show friends?

      If your a student you can use it for educational purposes, but you can’t use the whole piece.
      Shhheeeezzzz. Use Audition or use royalty free, or public domain music

      It’s not that simple. “Paying a fee” has nothing to do with it. What you need is permission from the owner of the work. And being a student also has nothing to do with it. You still have to follow the rules even if you are a student.

    • #168990
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      How bout when you shoot a dance recital and you sell the performance to the parents, but there is copyrighted material, What do you do?

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