How can they do that? Copyright music!!!
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push-play.
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July 26, 2005 at 10:46 AM #38909
push-play
ParticipantHey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?
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July 26, 2005 at 4:43 PM #168943
SteveMann
Participantpush-play Wrote:
Hey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?
In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.
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July 29, 2005 at 3:15 AM #168944
Anonymous
InactiveBe careful with copyright matieral. Its always a risk and being caught could be a rather unpleasant experience.
These days its just plain silly to do that. They are lots of options.
1. Use royalty free music (forget the days of cheese, its rather good now!)
2. Use sofware to create your own. Take your pic, Logic, Reason, Fuirty Loops, Soundtrack, Garageband – all very good.
3. Use a composer – they may composer free for you to begin with, or maybe they have something suitable, maybe they will scratch your back if your help them out
There are so many options open to you. Just look around. Try searching for royalty free music or production music. Many libraries such as ours http://www.beatsuite.com do offer some free music downloads. Also our prices are rather reasonable, also 100% legal music.
Quality does not always cost an arm and a leg. Hope this helps.
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July 29, 2005 at 3:07 PM #168945
SteveMann
Participantcompusolver Wrote:
… its OK to use copyrighted music that a client requests, in the video for the client’s use.
It’s not that black and white. While some may argue “Fair Use” by the client, it’s a gray issue that to the best of my knowledge has never been tested in court. You can rationalize it in many forms, but adding unlicensed media to a wedding video is still a violation of copyright laws.
Basically, if you are putting popular music on a wedding video that will be seen by ten people, it’s not likely to appear on the record label’s radar. (Disney seems to have a much more sensitive radar). If you are foolish enough to put it on your web site, you are inviting a letter from the label’s lawyers.
Steve Mann
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August 16, 2005 at 9:40 PM #168946
Anonymous
InactiveThere are some funky places out there that do a slightly different version of the popular song in order to avoid the legality, and sell them in packages or by song as royalty free. There is a fine line in this area, but there is some grand music selections out there that sound so close to the original that nobody but the legal offices can tell the difference.
Not a good example, I know, but this is the same variation on music law that allowed Weird Al to do what he did legally.
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August 17, 2005 at 2:12 AM #168947
Anonymous
InactiveI think we may launch a wedding music section in the future. Any other suggestions as to what music video editors may require?
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August 18, 2005 at 2:24 AM #168948
Anonymous
InactiveI haven’t checked your site yet, but the one style of music the no royalty free site has yet done up-to-par for me is heavy industrial rock with non-synthed guitars and well mixed beats. The background music for the game Quake 2 is about the style I’m referring to. It seems all the royalty free places have is techno-rock or classic rock. Nobody does the hardcore stuff or punk beats. If you had some good stuff in these areas, there’s a huge market for it in the x-games indy video crowd. I know I’d be much more willing to mass produce skate videos if I knew I wasn’t going to get prosecuted for the music use.
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August 18, 2005 at 2:45 AM #168949
Anonymous
InactiveAn excellent point, and I also agree with that.
We are looking for skate rock/thrash and all kinds of good quality rock. Any ideas to source bands/musicians Im all ears!
Will hopefully implement this over the next 2 months or so. As always I will keep you all posted
Thanks for the feedback – its always welcome
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August 18, 2005 at 11:20 AM #168950
DVine
ParticipantYou are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.
Then you need to purchase the rights to it, thats why anime music videos are played so much on the internet.
My demo reel has copyrighted music on it; just means i can’t hold a big meeti ng and say; look at me!
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August 18, 2005 at 11:50 AM #168951
SteveMann
ParticipantDVine Wrote:
You are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.
Ummm – Nope!
I can’t think of a single exception in the copyright law that would cover this. (I am not a lawyer, but I am very sensitive about copyright issues and I am well-read on the subject and can point you to cites if necessary).
As soon as someone other than you or your immediate family watch the demo, you are violating copyright. Copyright has nothing to do with broadcast or being sold, and profit or lack of it has absolutely no bearing on whether copyright has been violated or not.
As far as I know, Disney is the only media owner ruthlessly enforcing their copyrighted material used this way. (Just put your demo reel online with Disney music on it, and you’ll hear from their copyright cops fairly quickly).
The fact that almost everyone does it doesn’t make it legal. It’s just not at a level of occurance that gets on the copyright owner’s radar. Yet.
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August 19, 2005 at 2:11 AM #168952
Anonymous
InactiveI think as this topic is growing it only goes to show that their is much disinformation regarding intellectual copyright laws, both US and UK.
Whichever way you look at at or view it does not change the law. Anything which is copyrighted may not be used unless permission has been granted. It is an illegal offense, for a company it is very serious to ignore this since the penalties can be huge.
Again, their are many solutions to this problem. We live in a world full of music composers, producers, bands, artists. There are many royalty free music libraries and production companies creating and selling music for this exact reason, to avoid the pitfalls of copyright infringement and also to supply high quality music for professionals.
The best thing is, it is even created to fit the mood of your production, whethers thats happy, sad, uplifting, reliable, trustworthy, whatever.
I say again and I believe it, be creative, you should be original in production and not just latch onto commercial music, find something new and fresh and create your own style. If you have to use something that is well known, find a similar theme or have a sound alike composed.
If anybody is stuck I would be happy to supply them with an alternative although I do understand that we cannot cover every style of music.
Try me.
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August 23, 2005 at 5:26 PM #168953
TheDVshow
ParticipantAt least in my experience “fair use” doesn’t have a solid definition. My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it’s for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don’t use the ENTIRE work.
For example using 5-10 seconds of a copyrighted music piece in a demo reel when applying for employment should not get you into legal hot water.
Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.
Fair use also applies for the news:
The Rolling Stones were in Boston recently- local TV and radio news is able to use small segments of the concert in their reports regardless of the copyrights. If they televised or broadcast the ENTIRE concert they step into infringement.
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August 23, 2005 at 10:59 PM #168954
SteveMann
ParticipantTheDVshow Wrote:
… My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it’s for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don’t use the ENTIRE work.
…Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.
Fair use also applies for the news:
The only thing you have right in your post is example of fair-use as it applies to news broadcasts.
Profit or lack of profit has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with copyright violation. (Profits do figure into damage awards, however).
Any unauthorized use of copyrighted work, even a small part of the work, is a violation. Fair use is deliberately vague to avoid codifying a definition of educational or news. What is or is not fair use is up to the judge.
Steve Mann
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August 24, 2005 at 2:28 PM #168955
TheDVshow
ParticipantThis is such an interesting topic I decided to invite an intellectual property attorney on the show.
Listen in on August 29th’s podcast for some answers!
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August 25, 2005 at 9:19 PM #168956
Anonymous
InactiveJust a question… but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?
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August 26, 2005 at 1:41 AM #168957
Anonymous
InactiveWill do
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August 26, 2005 at 2:48 AM #168958
Anonymous
InactiveJonathan Decker Wrote:
Just a question… but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?
No, I guess they fit in the “educational purposes” category… X-D
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August 26, 2005 at 2:54 AM #168959
Anonymous
InactiveIn the UK these all have to have PRS license to be able to play music to the public. Public Performance License (PPL).
See http://www.prs.co.uk for more info
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August 26, 2005 at 2:59 AM #168960
Anonymous
InactiveIts usually the venue that has to pay the license, this includes gyms, leisure clubs, bars, restaurants etc.
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August 26, 2005 at 10:46 AM #168961
matt01992k5
Participantare royalties expensive?
couldnt you just write a letter to the person/group and ask? throw up some free promotion and advertising in your work or set up some kind of similar deal?
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August 26, 2005 at 11:38 AM #168962
Anonymous
Inactiveha ha! I wish it worked that way. Only no-name artists allow you to use their work (which usually sucks bigtime) just for including their name in the credits…
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August 26, 2005 at 6:25 PM #168963
matt01992k5
Participantwell how much do you usually have to pay to get the licenses?
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August 26, 2005 at 7:13 PM #168964
Anonymous
InactivePersonally, I’m an ass.
Since this is not my full-time job, I prefer to work with amateur artists (of which I highly recommend William Cushman, Justin Durban and Peter John Ross) for free, or sometimes even “forget” about royalties (don’t tell anyone, though 😉 ).
I don’t advise you to do the same. -
August 27, 2005 at 8:12 AM #168965
Anonymous
InactiveTo help understand royalties in music and royalty free music I will post an article that should help to keep things clear.
Watch this spot
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August 28, 2005 at 4:32 PM #168966
matt01992k5
Participantwaiting…
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August 29, 2005 at 8:57 PM #168967
TheDVshow
ParticipantWell, August 29th’s podcast, as promised, contains info on copyrights…listen in for the “10 biggest myths concerning the law and video production” with business and intellectual property attorney Brian LeClair:
http://www.thedvshow.com/2005/08/dv-show-podcast-for-august-29-2005.html
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August 30, 2005 at 2:22 AM #168968
Anonymous
InactiveMatt,
It usually varies depending on source, and intent of use. It’s best to hire an attorney to wade through the legal documents. All of the rights stuff is set up with the record company not the performer. So even if brittany says yes to you, you’ve gotta get her bosses permission. X-D -
September 1, 2005 at 11:01 PM #168969
Anonymous
InactiveSteveMann Wrote:
push-play Wrote:
Hey I was wondering… I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it’s best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?
In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.
Thats what I think^^
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September 2, 2005 at 1:40 AM #168970
Anonymous
InactiveSo, turn them in to the cops.
j/k
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October 3, 2005 at 3:31 PM #168971
DVine
Participantmy demo reel has copyrighted music and i was taught in copyright class that was fine. I just can’t sell or televise it without purchasing the rights.
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October 3, 2005 at 4:12 PM #168972
SteveMann
ParticipantDVine Wrote:
my demo reel has copyrighted music and i was taught in copyright class that was fine. I just can’t sell or televise it without purchasing the rights.
Copyright class?
Well, if your instructor said this, he is flat out wrong.
You can put all the copyrighted stuff you want into your demo reel, you just can’t show it to anyone. When you display or exhibit the work, you are in copyright violation. When you mail a copy of the demo to a producer or hiring manager, you are distributing the work, thus violating copyright. If you put the demo reel on the web, then you are way over the line in copyright violation territory.
Many wedding videographers are in that latter category.
The fact is, there’s probably not many video pros in the Television or Film industries whose reels don’t contain any copyright violations. Most of them, however, don’t put their reel on the web.
Bottom line is that when anyone outside of your immediate family sees your reel, it’s in distribution and use of copyright protected music or images is a violation. The reality is that almost everyone does it and to my knowledge, no one has ever been busted for it. (I do know that some wedding videographers have received “cease and desist” letters for putting demos that contain protected works on their web site).
[By the way, since your original post mentioned it – Sale or profit – or lack of profit – has absolutely NOTHING to do with copyright. If a violation occurs, the copyright owner doesn’t care whether you made any money from it’s use or not or if the use is for a non-profit charity. It’s still a violation. Profit only comes into the equation when determining damages.]
Steve
IANAL -
October 3, 2005 at 5:16 PM #168973
Anonymous
InactiveThat’s why Audition’s loops are so darn helpful. Just make your own music, dude. 😉
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October 3, 2005 at 10:34 PM #168974
Anonymous
InactiveThat’s why Audition’s loops are so darn helpful. Just make your own music, dude.
Exactly! I have very little music experience, and I was able to import my wedding video intro into Audition and create a custom wedding theme with ease!
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October 4, 2005 at 12:25 AM #168975
Anonymous
InactiveAudition is grand! It’s just hard for me not to get distracted by the variety. I have ADD pretty hardcore. 😉
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October 4, 2005 at 1:20 AM #168976
SteveMann
ParticipantI would be interested in hearing what you’ve done with Audition.
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October 5, 2005 at 6:06 AM #168977
DVine
ParticipantHe said we could as long as we were students; but that later on we would either have to redo the music or get the righs to continue showing it.
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October 5, 2005 at 9:11 AM #168978
SteveMann
ParticipantDVine Wrote:
He said we could as long as we were students; but that later on we would either have to redo the music or get the righs to continue showing it.
If you use the reel to look for a job, then the instructor is flat out wrong. As long as the reel is used for educational purposes, I.E. training, final exam, or post-grad entry application, then it probably falls under the educational umbrella.
Looking for a job is not an educational use of copyrighted materials.
Read the copyright law yourself – http://www.copyright.gov – There is no blanket indemnification from copyright laws just because you’re a student.
Steve
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October 5, 2005 at 9:14 AM #168979
Anonymous
InactiveI’ve heard teachers tell me this before too… But with the new alertness of the music corporations it’s simply better not to risk the legalities.
A lot of “Broadcasting” teachers haven’t actually looked that deeply into the matter, since they don’t have to worry about showing their reel anymore. 😉 By the way, You can use whatever music you like, so long as no one, but you, watches it. -
October 5, 2005 at 7:27 PM #168980
Anonymous
InactiveI would be interested in hearing what you’ve done with Audition.
Sure! I’m slightly busy right now but I’ll try to get a link up soon.
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October 7, 2005 at 5:05 PM #168981
bonzer
ParticipantThere are alot of great sounding Indie bands out there who are often looking for exposure. I have honed my video skills with many such bands and they are usually very happy for me to use their music.
A web search for “Indie Music” is a start, and check out (shamless plug) http://www.tractorgrease.com to see musicians and videographersworking together, both artists need exposure.
bonzer
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October 7, 2005 at 11:07 PM #168982
Anonymous
InactiveOK, let me just say right now, this ISN’T the greatest wedding video ever made. It was one of my first ones and I learned a lot from it. So try and just listen to the music X-D
Also, I didn’t really spend a lot of time on the music. I just slapped it together and I didn’t really know the program all that well. With that said:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7781704871857146280&q=%22Wedding+Intro%22+playable%3Atrue
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October 19, 2005 at 12:30 AM #168983
Anonymous
InactiveTo “thebeatsuite” and anyone else who’s interested in rock of the heavier variety, I’d love to hook you up with De’esis. (www.deesistheband.com, or http://www.myspace.com/deesis to hear them)
They even recorded a non-rock song for my last film. If anyone wants great rock for their film, of any type, I have friends in all the right kind of bands, good bands, just let me know what you’re looking for! director_nikki@msn.com
-Nikki
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October 21, 2005 at 10:13 AM #168984
birdcat
ParticipantRocktooloud Wrote:
OK, let me just say right now, this ISN’T the greatest wedding video ever made. It was one of my first ones and I learned a lot from it. So try and just listen to the music X-D
Also, I didn’t really spend a lot of time on the music. I just slapped it together and I didn’t really know the program all that well. With that said:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7781704871857146280&q=%22Wedding+Intro%22+playable%3Atrue
Hi –
The version of Pachelbel’s Canon you used is quite nice (like the bells – nice touch).
You said you used Adobe Autition to create it? Just curious how that product works and if I would need to be a musician to use it (I already use Sony’s Acid and Voyetra’s Record Producer Pro).
Thanks.
Bruce
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October 27, 2005 at 6:30 PM #168985
Endeavor
ParticipantI use audition and I’m defititely no musician but you need a little know-how in the way of audio editing to get you started. Audition is a very good tool for audio editing, sound cleanup, and music creation. 2 Thumbs up (IMO)!
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November 14, 2005 at 11:06 AM #168986
phillips719
ParticipantIf you guys don’t mind doing some reading, here is a website that explains pretty much anything you would want to know about copyrights, licensing and such. Seems to be a lot of variation of opinions on this forum.
http://www.soundexchange.com/licensing101.html
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November 23, 2005 at 5:35 AM #168987
Videoman
ParticipantHey, unless you pay a fee – you can’t use it. What the hell do you think copyright means any way – it’s ok if I use it just for me or if I show friends?
If your a student you can use it for educational purposes, but you can’t use the whole piece.
Shhheeeezzzz. Use Audition or use royalty free, or public domain music -
December 30, 2005 at 12:46 PM #168988
Anonymous
InactiveI know it’s late but you asked for some samples of what’s possible in audition. Here’s a song put together with no hard thought, simply using the supplied loops and no cutting. In other words, this is a hyper generic slap together. I used it for a music bed once.
http://www.xonikz.com/Audios/Rock%20On%20Dude.mp3
Most of the rest of the Mp3’s I posted in the Audio/Mp3 section of my site were made combining FLStudio4 with Audition.
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December 31, 2005 at 7:18 AM #168989
Endeavor
ParticipantVideoman Wrote:
Hey, unless you pay a fee – you can’t use it. What the hell do you think copyright means any way – it’s ok if I use it just for me or if I show friends?
If your a student you can use it for educational purposes, but you can’t use the whole piece.
Shhheeeezzzz. Use Audition or use royalty free, or public domain musicIt’s not that simple. “Paying a fee” has nothing to do with it. What you need is permission from the owner of the work. And being a student also has nothing to do with it. You still have to follow the rules even if you are a student.
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March 3, 2010 at 9:47 PM #168990
Anonymous
InactiveHow bout when you shoot a dance recital and you sell the performance to the parents, but there is copyrighted material, What do you do?
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