HD workflow?

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    • #43857
      Avatarkinomatico
      Participant

      Hi to everyone, first time i post here so i hope i’ll be clear.

      first of all congratulations for the website and the community, really useful!

      I’m gonna shot a commercial with the Red One (i think we’ll shoot 2k), using the external Red Drive as hard-disk. Then we’ll edit with Final Cut Pro.

      So, since i’m gonna work with the online material, i was wondering which kind of compression is the best one to achive the best quality with small size file (i know, sounds like i want everything with nothing…). I saw that the uncompressed 10bit is something like 123 mb/s and my macbook pro won’t render all this stuff everytime that i make a change. I saw the apple prores, that seems a good option (high quality and small size files), but i’m not completly sure about this.

      Morover, do i need a particular plug-in in order to capture the footage from the Red One?

      Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

      Michele

    • #183787
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      If you don’t mind me asking, why is file size an issue? It would seem to me that if you’re shooting with RED, you would have enough editing gear to handle the file size….

      RED One can truly shoot uncompressed video, and to edit uncompressed video, I believe you need a RAID5 at least.

      I don’t think you need a plug-in to edit with FCP. It’s my understanding that the creators of RED make their cameras with the use of FCP in mind.

    • #183788
      Avatarkinomatico
      Participant

      Thanks Rob

      my editing gear is bad… i mean, it’s ok, but i don’t know how much it can handle with Red One files. I’ll use a Macbook Pro with a GeForce 8600M GT 512 M. The point is that i should have used the toplist MacPro, but it won’t arrive before xmas and we’r gonna shoot next week…

      So, i was thinking to capture evrything with the Apple ProRes compression (that i’ve already used and my mac manages quite good) and work directly with that on the timeline. Even if it’s a 30″ commercial and not a Lord of the Rings episode, the uncompressed size (123mb/s) will kill my mac (and me with him…) for every render.

      I’ll investigate about the capture preset (plugin or not and all this stuff). more news later…

      Thanks, Michele

    • #183789
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      ProRes isn’t a bad choice, but note that not even a Mac Pro alone will handle uncompressed video. It’s a RAID5 or greater that allows for uncompressed editing. I believe a Macbook Pro could handle uncompressed video with a RAID5 attached.

    • #183790
      Avatarkinomatico
      Participant

      i see.. i tried to convince my boss that we need a RAID (i mean, at least to rent one), but the budget is quite low and he says we can’t afford it…

      let’s see if with a little bit of luck we can have one from a friend of him.

      Thanks for your help Rob

      still, i’m looking for the log and capture presets and if i need plugin or whatever.

    • #183791
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      I’m not sure if you’ve already found what you’re looking for, but if not, I think I have:

      http://www.red.com/support

      Near the bottom of the list of downloads (on the left side second from the bottom), there is “RED QUICKTIME CODEC (BETA)”. I believe this allows you to edit RAW files from RED, but this plug-in creates Quicktime Reference files so that your computer can handle the data. And right next to that plug-in is the Log and Transfer Plug-in.

      I’ve read in another article that a lot of people do convert to ProRes on the Log And Transfer, but this is time consuming. It’s also like shooting RAW files with a DLSR and then converting them to JPEG before editing because “they’re smaller files and look good.”

    • #183792
      Avatarkinomatico
      Participant

      yes, i was looking on the redforum. a lot of info and suggestions there…

      but i don’t really understand if the RED QUiCKTIME CODEC allows you to make the online movies once you finish to edit with your proxies, i think you can do tht with redalert, but then i don’t really understand how to reconnect the original media with FCP. My fear is that once i finish the editing i’ll need another software (i.e. monkey extract) to do the offline/online process…

      anyway i saw this solution and it seems a good one:

      “This could be the most important email for a lot of you struggling with POST.
      We have just finished months of major testing towards grading of RED footage, editing of RED footage and finished POST & Mastering to SRHD.

      Over the last 8 months of shooting many big budget RED jobs and posting many different ways we have come to a point that for TV AD LAND we have been wasting lots of time and money in POST rendering files that quite honestly don’t need to be rendered.

      Having to RENDER everything out to TAPE or to a readable format for the AVID guys was becoming to much of a chore. Rendering all the files out to either DPX , tiff or even PRO RES was taking for ever as well. Especially if you’ve shot about 6 hours of footage.
      We have tested and tested and re-tested to find the quickest way to edit, online, grade and to master RED out to HD / 2k / sd etc.

      In short it goes like this.

      Set REC709 in your RED CAMERA Quick time proxy settings.
      Once shot place your 1k or 2k REC709 Proxy Quicktimes directly into the FCP time line. FCP should auto set the sequence time line to PRO RES 10bit (hq) at what ever file dimension (2k 0r 1k) you throw into it. Simple.

      Set time line to unlimited RT and set your playback to LOW.
      Now edit and grade away happily in FCP. No rendering needed at this stage.
      For example I have just dropped 4hours 22mins of RED 2k proxie quicktimes into my Final cut time line, It took less than 5 seconds to load it all in and play and edit.
      I usually do this on set in my laptop for the clients.

      Simple.

      Now If you have incorrectly exposed your shot on the day, Just go back to RED ALERT adjust your brightness, exposure or contrast of that shot to give your self more information. Then Generate new quicktime proxies via RED ALERT. (this will take less than 2 seconds to do).These will replace themselves automatically in your FCP time line.

      Simple

      Ok your edit is done, your client loves it. You now set your RT to safe and your playback to HIGH. You will see a RED RENDER line appear above your edit. You press RENDER. (It will RENDER the time line in PRO RES (HQ) 30sec at 2k is around 1 minute to RENDER out using a standard 8 core MAC.
      Your TV AD, music Video etc etc is Done finished in HD or HD and ready to go to tape, TV Stations, DVD…etc.

      Easy.

      We do this daily without a single hiccup on very large projects.

      see link: [url]http://www.zoomfilmtv.com.au/ftp/Rec709_vs_PDlog/[/url]

      As you can see with this grade test using just the QT proxies up against the RENDER intensive DPX method. The difference between the DPX process and the QT proxie use is not going to give you hardly anymore to play with.
      I recommend using either the DPX or direct R3d grading if you have completely stuffed up exposure on the day of shooting it.

      Happy Shooting.

      Big T
      Join Date: Jan 2008
      Location: AUSTRALIA
      Posts: 292″

      ProRes seems a good final output solution, morover that in my case is a TV commercial and not a cinemamovie (i mean, it’s gonna be shoot on the TV screen, not on the cinema one…

      anyway i’d like to understand better the red quicktime codec process, i’ll take a better look to that.

      Thanks Robert

      Michele

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