Getting good Production Dialogue….

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    • #41967
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      May the powers that be save us from having to listen to another video with just the built-in mic or worse!

      Believe it or not, you can get solid to great production audio and spare yourself the prospect of post-production ADR (audio Dialogue Replacement) with just one or two simple steps. Check out this Video by Colin Hart to see the simple truth for getting good production audio:

    • #177322
      Avatardavid.kuespert
      Participant

      love it thanks!

    • #177323
      AvatarTony
      Participant

      It’s a good little video. A couple of points though: In order for a boom operator to get results like that it helps if they are somewhat familiar with the lines so they know when to move the mic. Also it would be nice to know what sort of mic was used on the boom in the video.

      Telling people to get their mic off the camera has to be a good thing for sure!

    • #177324
      AvatarWoody
      Participant

      I know enough about audio to be dangerous but not a danger to the video I produce. That was kind of the point to learning something about it.

      I can’t understand why this seems to be a hard one to get across to people but it seems to be a subject that needs to be reinforced quite a bit.

    • #177325
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      @WSanford,

      With all the emphasis on ‘what camera should I buy’ and whether to get a DSLR or not, so many shooters completely blow off getting good audio gear and taking the steps to pulling down good audio. You can have shot the greatest looking video ever and a crap soundtrack will kill it 3 seconds after the opening credits finish.

    • #177326
      AvatarTony
      Participant

      Sometimes even after people have had to spend large chunks of money on getting someone in post to fix up their poorly recorded audio, they still don’t learn, and go out and do the same thing again. It never ceases to amaze me!

    • #177327
      Avatargldnears
      Member

      ” Sometimes even after people have had to spend large chunks of money on getting someone in post to fix up their poorly recorded audio, they still don’t learn, and go out and do the same thing again. It never ceases to amaze me! “

      I recorded production sound for a variety of industrial, commercial, and documentary films ( really, film, pre-video days ), and even had the pleasure of recording production sound for a ” Hollywood ” feature. Rarely when shooting a low-budget documentary did the producer/director/cameraman acknowledge the importance of sound, usually assigning that task to their girlfriend who hand-held a long Sennheiser shotgun ( which was in constant motion, being waved around like aswash-buckling Errol Flynn) connected to a Nagra slung over-the-shoulder which was never consulted for a hint of proper recording level!

      Let’s face it . . . we’re visually oriented creatures. Folks thinking about getting into the video racket think about the gorgeous pictures they could dazzle friends or clients with, not gorgeous sounds they could dazzle friends or clients with. There is an axiom which states: ” The better you do your job ( as a sound recordist ), the more you disappear “. Rarely do video productions receive awards for excellence in sound. The neophite video enthusiast dreams of standing before an audience of their ” peers ” and receivingan award for their videographyefforts, not for sterling sound.

      In telling a story, all technical aspects involved must support the story being told and not necessarily draw attention to themselves.

      Rick Crampton

    • #177328
      AvatarWoody
      Participant

      @Composite1,

      With all the examples, both good and bad it just blows my mind that so many don’t see (hear) the difference. But I do believe you have touched on something in that the DSLR craze.

    • #177329
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      @WSanford,

      I dig the look of DSLR’s but hate all the extras needed to work with it at its full potential. Sound is critical no matter how ‘visual’ we humans may be. The reason we no longer watch silent films (The Artist not withstanding) is because ‘talkies’ (movies with sound) blew away moviegoer’s experiences at the theater. You could get away with awful sound back then because the gear hadn’t been perfected and it was still a novel technology. Now, forget it. Just like in the video, with just a few minor steps and pieces of gear you can get solid production sound. ADR is just too much trouble and too expensive for folks working on small productions. Getting it right the first time saves time and money when you get chained to an edit bay.

      Unless all of your DSLR work is going to be silent with just narration and music tracks, if you’re going to work with those cameras you better have the necessary audio gear on hand.

    • #177330
      Avatarbillmecca
      Participant

      A lot of the problem is consumer grade camcorders, which is where most newbie videographers start. When is the last time you saw one with a mic in jack? they are more rare than, well good audio on anamateurproduction. They have no way to put an external microphone into the camcorder so they use what they’ve got. Which is something we tell people all the time, at least I do. ‘do the best you can with what you’ve got.” I also tell them about good audio, but few want to run a double audio system, or even know what it is. And it makes more work for them in post, synching audio and video. They are newbies after all and don’t realize the magic happens in the editing. πŸ˜‰

      I’m old school and understand DSLR’s get great images, but give me a good camcorder any day (preferablya shoulder mount). I’ve heard all the arguments about different lenses, DSLR’s beign cheaper compared to camcorders that could do the same thing. But it still seems like its all there to support a new cottage industry of DSLR add-ons in order to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Turning a still camera into a camcorder, takes $$. And the dang things are so front heavy and “non-ergonomic.” sorry that’s my rant. πŸ˜‰

      back on topic… I think many newbies come up, use what they have and are glad to get an image on the screen, never mind good audio. but if they stay at it long enough most will learn that audio is at least one half the equation. If we keep harping on it. πŸ˜‰

    • #177331
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      “A lot of the problem is consumer grade camcorders, which is where most newbie videographers start. When is the last time you saw one with a mic in jack?”

      Bill,

      You’re definitely on point. A while back as an inexpensive supplement for hd shooting, I picked up an HD capable point-n-shoot. The built-in mic was horrible, but I came up with a good way to tone down the audio and use that purely for reference sound. When shooting something where audio is critical, I put together a rig so I can shoot with the cam and use a Zoom H1 (wanted to keep it light) to do sync audio with. Having a proper recorder on board makes one heck of a difference. Syncing audio is not that tough if you take the steps to do a proper slate during the shoot.

      The experience has been very good and as I also do photography, being able to switch back and forth is invaluable. However, I’m leaning more towards a rig like the Canon C300. I’m just sorry it doesn’t do stills like a DSLR, but a Mark III would be a great back up. But I’ve found it’s good to have a recorder on set to fill in any sound holes that might pop up.

    • #177332
      AvatarJackWolcott
      Participant

      I’m leaning toward the Canon C300 too. Unfortunately, I’ll undoubtedly have leaned all the way over to prone before I can come up with the $16,000 price tag and a way to justify it to my partner.

      Let us know how you like yours when you get it!

      Jack

    • #177333
      Avatarcomposite1
      Member

      Jack,

      Yeah, the C300’s going to be one ‘heavy lift’. I really don’t think they can justify the price when the C500’s $20k there about, the new 1D is in the same price range as well. They seriously should drop the C300 to the $5-6k price range (especially since it doesn’t come with a lens) to compete with the Sony FS700 which has serious slow-motion capability.

      But you’re right about camera gear justifying their price. Newbies don’t understand that your gear purchases must pay for themselves through the work you bring in using them.

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