Getting back into vid-which camera, format rules now?

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    • #39810
      Avatarcc
      Participant

      Hey all!

      I used to do video as a hobby, attended local college classes, subscribed to Videomaker, had a GL2 (mini DV), learned Premiere a bit, had some fun, but work took precedence and I sold all my stuff on Ebay about 7 years ago.

      I’d like to get back into the game, but I’m way out of touch. Can anyone suggest a very good camera? Is mini DV still the way to go? Where’s the best place to buy, not just for price but for honesty as well. I’d like to shoot sporting events and outdoor stuff almost all during the day, but maybe a few local H.S. football games at night thrown in to complicate things. I’d apprciate any suggestions. TIA!! 🙂

    • #171747
      Avatarbrandon0409
      Participant

      I guess the camera depends on what you want to do.
      If it’s just average video, a normal consumer cam, but for more professional shoots, or even more important shoots probably a prosumer lik Sony VX2100 or HD.

      MiniDV is still the norm but HD is steadily creeping its way in. The only problem is that there is no standard HD format yet. Many are extrememly compressed and hard to edit (just like MPEG) some are only able to be viewed with propirietary software.

      What I’m waiting for is an uncompressed full blown HD. That’d be nice.

    • #171748
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      HDV is taking over as the best "bang for the buck" recording format, and some good cameras to consider are the Sony FX1 / FX7 / V1U / Z1U or the Canon XH-A1. You’ll need a good recent computer and updated editing software to edit the HDV files, and then you can output back to HDV or more compressed delivery formats like Windows Media or AVCHD. Blu-ray is winning the HD disc format war and the Sony Playstation 3 is currently the best HD-capable multimedia device (and game machine) on the market. Let us know if you need any other pointers.

    • #171749
      Avatarcc
      Participant

      The computer would be dedicated to video editing – no Internet or word processing. I was going to stick with Premiere for editing because I’m somewhat familiar with it, but I’m sure it’s changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Probably a big learning curve, but it’ll be worth it.

      Is ieee 1394 firewire still used? I guess the Canon XL no longer rules the roost for prosumer vid? I’ll check out the XH-A1 after this post.

      Thanks for taking the time to reply.

    • #171750
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      cc Wrote:

      Is ieee 1394 firewire still used? I guess the Canon XL no longer rules the roost for prosumer vid?

      DV-only cameras are on their way out for most purposes, but the Canon XL2 isn’t bad in that regard because it at least has a proper widescreen recording mode. If you really want interchangeable lenses check out the JVC HDV cameras or the new Sony shoulder-mounted HDV model due out later this year.

    • #171751
      AvatarJockey
      Participant

      Kevin Shaw Wrote:

      Blu-ray is winning the HD disc format war

      Do you have reliable statistics?

    • #171752
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      Jockey Wrote:

      Kevin Shaw Wrote:

      Blu-ray is winning the HD disc format war

      Do you have reliable statistics?

      Yes, the most important statistic is that Blu-ray movie discs have been outselling HD-DVD by a ratio of ~2:1 since the beginning of this year, and those figures are available somewhere on a movie-by-movie basis with similar results. As you may have heard, Blockbuster did a test of Blu-ray versus HD-DVD rentals in several dozen stores and decided to go with Blu-ray nationwide, so that was a pretty big indicator. We can also see that most major movie studios are backing Blu-ray to some extent with only two going exclusively HD-DVD for now, and the latter was the result of a $150 million incentive payment from the HD-DVD consortium which expires in 18 months. When I went into my local Target store recently they had both Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs for sale, with Blu-ray offering twice as many titles and occupying twice as much shelf space. And to cap this all off note that you still can’t buy an HD-DVD burner except as an option on some new computers, but Blu-ray burners and discs are widely available. If you want to make a proper HD disc today your only realistic option is Blu-ray, unless you want to try putting an HD-DVD project on an old red-laser disc — which means that independent producers are starting to line up to go Blu-ray.

      As far as I can see the HD-DVD format is losing ground in a hurry, and the only thing going for it is a cheaper price for entry-level players. But paying $250 for a bare-bones player for a dying format isn’t really a better deal than paying $500 for a Sony Playstation 3 and getting a complete multimedia center and game machine in the process. The PS3 is what tipped the format war in Blu-ray’s favor, and unless something changes soon the war will likely end quietly with HD-DVD being relegated to data storage on personal computers.

    • #171753
      Avatarcc
      Participant

      I’m confused as to what part PSP and blu Ray play in the video creation process.

      Lets say you’re using Premiere with a mini DV camcorder. You would –

      -shoot the video
      -upload the clips into Premiere’s timeling via Firewire
      -edit as necessary, then render the final video
      – burn the completed video to DVD

      Where does PSP and/or BluRay enter into this scenario? Sorry for the gnorance, but so much has changed and I don’t want to sink a ton of $$ into equipment that will be obsolete or unsupported in a year or so. Thanks again.

    • #171754
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      cc Wrote:

      Where does PSP and/or BluRay enter into this scenario? Sorry for the gnorance, but so much has changed and I don’t want to sink a ton of $$ into equipment that will be obsolete or unsupported in a year or so. Thanks again.

      Blu-ray is useful for making high-definition DVDs from HD video source, and the Sony Playstation 3 is the most popular device for playing Blu-ray discs. No need to worry about Blu-ray if you’re still shooting DV, but if you upgrade to HDV you may be interested in it.

    • #171755
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      CC,

      Let me throw in a slightly different take on this. I am a web programmer. You are asking 2 questions, which capture method and what delivery method.

      As far as camera, get the highest definition cam you can afford. The women and men who have been in the field long enough will tell you it’s not the camera which makes the difference, it’s your talent and dedication to your craft. Like saying hey, you’ve cooked up a great meal, you must have an awesome oven. Technology will help, but a talented professional will be able to take a range of hardware and creativity to make a business financially work.

      Bluray HD/DVD are delivery formats. They allow you to archive your media. Profits were getting lean from DVD, so lobbyists went to Washington to create laws so that broadcasters had to purchase higher definition equipment. Sony’s PSP, and Microsoft’s XBOX are pricey ways to sell games to kids. O by the way, these games need lots of storage, so they use Bluray and HD/DVD to deliver all this data. The video gaming market is huge, and as the major corporates saw their video revenues declining because less people can afford to buy prosumer cams as novices get into the game, they hit upon the brilliance of packaging a moneymaking gaming industry hardware device able to deliver the disk to play HD content. Since disks are nothing but computer storage solutions, they built in h.264 and a few other codecs to deliver video in addition to being a disk based data storage format. This is where I feel that the web is going to secretly overtake the optical disk markets, and the high end professionals will be caught unaware. Optical disk media you are familiar with are DVDs. Bluray and HD/DVD will be a good way to deliver more information on their storage formats in a few years when the average person can afford the hardware. Currently these high definition media storage disks are conversation pieces on chatrooms and provide hopes that increase in quality will create an increase in business sales prices. In reality Sony is probably seeing money. Maybe some of the other hardware companies who manufacture thousands of dollars worth of hardware are seeing money. It won’t trickle down to the average videographer until HD becomes available everywhere. Optical disks are one way media. This means someone has to clear their time of activities and vegetate in front of a 1 way box to stare at your media. Watching video is a very isolating experience. Delivering your media online is a 2 way process. This means as they consume your video they talk to their friends about your video. The conversation creates more conversation, and your video is watched more often. People who are aware of media value it. A very similar thing happenned in the audio industry. It’s not that consumers value music any less. It’s just they won’t pay the high prices for disk based media. More music is consumed now than any time in history. A lot of it is put out for free by mySpace bands. They give away the music for free and get paid to appear at concerts.

      Using 2 way media you can charge your customer for video you create and give them 1 optical disk. Then put the entire piece online with your logo and link back to your website. When you can deliver your media to the 300-500 people who watch online, then they begin to value video. And this is where you can pick from your pool of potential clients. It’s a very different business model because online you expect people to talk about the video while they watch. The traditional method is charging your main client $3000 and spending a lot of time to try upselling $20 DVD or Bluray or HD/DVD media. Maybe your client will talk you up, to his 3 or 5 friends. Contrast that with what we’re doing here, in this text only forum sponsored by Videomaker. Videomaker spent the money to create this forum to allow us to talk. We are speaking to each other about a topic, not necessarily videomaker magazine topics. But we see the logo again and again, we see the advertiser products. I know it has made me more aware of these products. But whether or not I purchase any of the product, I get a great deal from the discussion. Using web 2.0 techniques your video is the topic, and your viewers chat up the video while it continues to play. Instead of the videomaker logo, it would be your own logo. Instead of you going out there to spending time marketing your services, let your clients come to you to watch your media and talk it up. Not 30 seconds or 5 minutes, the whole piece. Forget the $20 sales pitch to sell optical disks. By giving away the video, you can get the opportunity to sell real clients who want real accounts. More eyes means a larger pool of business you can choose from. I think the 1907 model of doing business is amazing. Create a great piece of media, then charge tickets. The moving picture people did that and were very successful in the era of Charlie Chaplin and talkies. Today the ticket price is purchasing a DVD. Tomorrow the ticket price will be purchasing a Bluray HD/DVD optical media disk. I don’t see purchasing a DVD or Bluray or HD/DVD as lucrative, I see it as a barrier to consuming video. It’s 2007, the emerging business model is create amazing media and charge your client. Then be brave and bold and give access to media so that other people who actually don’t realize they want to purchase media can see what they are missing. It’s not obvious why they need video, it makes no sense to them why they should pay someone to capture and edit media when they have their $150 digicam. So start showing it. In full. And if you’re a programmer create a space for people to talk up your video right on your site, so they can watch video and post positive commentary. 300-500 people who have good things to say is more lucrative than selling a few DVDs, because the 300-500 group will have financially aware enough buyers to purchase your services. It’s what we do here. Videomaker editors may not post on these forums, but some very educated video people do. I learn from them everytime I come here. I am applying this business model to sell video services. It’s working for me today. In 5 years I’ll check back with the HD/DVD/Blueray media crowd.

      CC, the reason I suggest your purchasing a quality camera is that better video results in better online video. Today bandwidth is limited, yes. But we’ve come a long way in online delivery in less than 5 years. So you can spend the $15-30 for each of these high definition blank disks today. And the $800-1000 player. Learn java to create your navigation for these one way optical disks. Get a two-three thousand dollar computer to edit in high def. Purchase software which allows editing in high def. Hope your client gets a 60 inch flat screen to appreciate your high def work. And sell to that 1 person who can consume and pay for your media. Or create your process and workflow and deliver it online. Today. With 2 way methods of communication. To 400 people. For less than the cost of producing one HD piece. I realize my way of doing it is not as exciting as dreaming about fat HD profits that manufacturers are selling. But you can still give your client that DVD.

      If you are established and have more business than you can handle, you won’t need to worry about online video, you’ll probably retire in 5 years. But if you are planning to do video over the next 5 to 10 to 20 years at least be aware of and open to online delivery. With bandwidth and storage becoming inexpensive, it’s a lot easier creating a market for hundreds or thousands of people who want video and come to your online property to consume your video. With optical disks you will always be saddled with the cost and time of producing each disk individually. A good $20 venture. But why chase $20 when you can get to choose from new potential $1000 business? It does take changing perceptions, though. X-D One videographer told me he gives the internet 5 years before it dies. Another videographer said she was so successful, she’s too good to sell the simple $2500 accounts. Good for them, but video will not flourish with an attitude like that. That attitude is great for the industrial revolution which makes one person powerful and forgets everyone else. They got theirs, they have no need to promote any other way of working.

      I value video very much, and am building a business online based on what I believe. The more people are able to share good video, the more likely they will pay for high quality edited footage. But unless the video industry comes up with a professional way to share media not just consume it, people will continually take the video you shoot, reject the optical media you try to sell them and push it onto youTube. I hate that low level quality and all the ads surrounding good content. But Panasonic and Sony are not going to create or sell online solutions. It’s coming from grassroot efforts like me and other videographers / web developers who are creating their own ways to promote quality video. What are your opinions? Have you created a good way to allow sharing your media, have you put thought into how people discuss what you create? Or is it only relevant for people like me in their 30s, 20s, people who are doing non television/hollywood based work?

      In answers to your question, CC. Get the best hardware you can afford, then at least be open to delivering online video today while the 1 way optical disk based methods sort themselves out over the next 5 years. And give your clients a couple of DVDs. If you’re lucky they won’t collect dust on a desk somewhere, those few DVDs will be your promotion tool.

      =====================
      virtualscribe
      http://www.wedclip.com

    • #171756
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      I value video very much, and am building a business online based on what I believe. The more people are able to share it, the more likely they will pay for high quality edited footage.

      Online video is definitely a growing trend, but it’s not likely to replace disc-based distribution any time soon – especially for high definition content. The important thing here is the comment that starting with high-quality source is desirable regardless of your final intended output, whether it be at low resolution on the internet or otherwise. If you use HD cameras you can deliver quality suitable for anything from a Blu-ray disc to a video iPod; if you don’t use HD cameras you’ll miss out on the growing market for HD discs.

      So you can spend the $15-30 for each of these blank disks today. And the $800-1000 player. Learn java to create your navigation for these one way optical disks. Get a thousand dollar computer to edit in high def. Purchase software which allows editing in high def. Hope your client gets a thousand dollar flat screen to appreciate your high def work. And sell to that 1 person who can consume your media. Or create your process and workflow and deliver it online.

      Right, let’s all learn to be web programmers so we can post our videos online with marginal quality and then have that pirated to the entire world for free. Not that disc-based distribution will prevent piracy, but at least people who buy discs will pay something for them when many online users won’t – or will maybe pay $1.99 for a download if they’re feeling generous. Seriously though, it’s a fair point that online distribution is a useful option to consider, but it won’t eliminate disc-based distribution in the next few years. So just do both…

    • #171757
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      Kevin Shaw,

      Right, let’s all learn to be web programmers so we can post our videos online with marginal quality …

      I respect your expertise as a videographer and would hire you when I need professional video. Why is it so difficult to hire a professional web developer to create your online media? You don’t have to program, hire the expert in the field that will get you there. From the videographer clients I have, every one of them is willing to trade off a bit of quality in exchange for having their media viewed hundreds of times.

      … and then have that pirated to the entire world for free …

      And that’s the point, isn’t it? If you’re so worried about piracy and people trying to steal from you your work won’t even be shown. More books are sold at Amazon because information is free online. Doesn’t mean people value information less, they value paper a bit less. Music is very respected, CDs are not. The methods of getting your creativity out there are changing. People are not starting their day out saying, what video can we pirate today. I can see that giving away valuable work using an interactive distribution method will bring in more clients who are aware of the video work. When you create high definition valuable work, absolutely charge your client. But at least be open to giving your media for free so you get more CLIENTS. The ones who can fund your equipment. The peers I know in their 30s, 20s, and teens don’t get excited about buying a disk. They get excited about talking about media online. Don’t chase that $3 – $20 disc you have to spend time burning. Chase that $2000 dollar potential client lead you got because 300 people saw your lower quality work online, and 10 of them decided they had to have this quality work for their own needs.

      Yes, the speed of internet access is lower today in the United States. Yes, as a videographer you will never be satisfied unless video quality strictly meets your high standards. Currently the US is 13th or 14th worldwide when it comes to speed of internet access. http://www.speedmatters.org/blog/page.jsp?itemID=28752668 European communities already are 10 times faster, so we have to start somewhere. I’m not arguing, Kevin Shaw’s points are absolutely correct, online video today does not take the place of optical disks. These supply 2 different needs. But at least be aware and open to options. Over the next 5 years online media distribution will absolutely evolve faster than optical media disk distribution in cost, ease, and immediacy. If you create such amazing work that people actually want it, then you’ll be hired to create more of it. Don’t hide your work inside an optical disk, be proud of it and give people access so they can watch it. Then sell to the people who pay you big dollars because they like what they see online. If they really really really like your work, they’ll buy your DVD or Bluray or HD/DVD. From your website. After they have watched the media. People do it all the time. DVDs of "The Office", "24". This is after they have already seen it. When they can see it anytime on free TV. All I’m saying is, there are new ways of creating and building up your business. At least be aware, at least be open, to the idea that new methods exist and videographers are not talking about or using them.

      =====================
      virtualscribe
      http://www.wedclip.com

    • #171758
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      virtualscribe Wrote:

      Why is it so difficult to hire a professional web developer to create your online media?

      It’s not, and it’s not really that hard to do your own web site – I was just giving you a little ribbing for saying we need to learn Java programming in order to make a Blu-ray disc.

      I think it’s a fine idea to use the internet in any way which is useful to customers and your business, but let’s not get carried away implying that online video is ready to replace disc-based delivery. I don’t have any customers of any age yet who have asked to forego physical delivery of their paid video projects, but I can see it becoming increasingly valuable to offer both disc-based and non-disc options.

    • #171759
      AvatarAnonymous
      Inactive

      X-D Kevin Shaw,

      It’s a valuable discussion to have on here, when professionals care about what they do.

      I could be wrong, but I believe HD/DVD or Bluray had Java programming available to create interactivity for the optical media. I’ll have to look that up, I recall reading that 3 years ago when specs were not finalized.

      Kevin Shaw, don’t wait for your client to ask before you supply the service. What I’ve done for my clients is given them a free account. If they had a wedding or Bar Mitzvah I gave away a free online video account. Without being asked. Then they got the onslaught of inquiries. Be proactive, once you provide online video for 1 client and they invite 300 of their offline/online friends, then business starts being generated. Market it by saying this is new, no one has it. Market it to the younger crowd, people who have online habits. Don’t wait until someone asks you, offer it to them so that you are very far ahead of your competition. If you have an upcoming client I’ll give you a free account on my own service. Give it away to them, in addition to their DVD. Yes, the main client deserves to have that DVD. But what you gain is a whole bunch of their friends checking out your service without your having to work for it. I know; it’s a different way of looking at media distribution. The offer stands, if in the future you feel one of your web savvy clients can benefit from their video posted online, up to 2 hours, password protected, guestbooked, look me up. I’ll gladly give you a free account. If you are good at what you do, if they are internet aware, you should get 250-400 of their peers visiting your media. You might even get a few new clients out of it. Without paying me a dime for it. No obligations. I believe in online video; I want more videographers to get the bug. Not as a replacement for the DVD of today. But as the successor to optical media in the world of tomorrow. We have to start somewhere, I’m starting here.

      =====================
      virtualscribe
      http://www.wedclip.com

    • #171760
      AvatarKevinShaw
      Participant

      virtualscribe Wrote:

      Be proactive, once you provide online video for 1 client and they invite 300 of their offline/online friends, then business starts being generated. Market it by saying this is new, no one has it. Market it to the younger crowd, people who have online habits. Don’t wait until someone asks you, offer it to them so that you are very far ahead of your competition.

      Now that I can relate to, plus the possibility of enabling downloads to people’s cell phones and portable video players. It just doesn’t mean that discs are going away…

      P.S. Java programming can play a role in advanced HD disc design, but it’s not required for making a basic disc.

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