FX1, De-interlacing, 1080i, and Cineform NeoScene

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    • #37554
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hello.

      I hope this is the right place to ask this question. If this is not the right place to ask this, please just let me know what is.

      I am still studying, trying to get ready for my first shoot. I have a Sony HDR-FX1 camera that records HDV in 1080i. I want to publish educational/documentary videos. I think probably 90% of the views will be online, and I hope to upload HD to YouTube, Vimeo, Veoh, MetaCafe and others. I plan to embed the Vimeo players and/or links in a new website we are working on. However, I also want to make things available in DVD (immediately), and if possible I would also like to burn to Blu-Ray, so I do not have to re-do anything inlater years(if that makes sense).

      I understand 1080i is not as good as 1080p, but it would be pulling teeth to upgrade my camera right now. I also bought the Cineform NeoScene Codec/converter, but have not had the opportunity to use it yet.

      I did a Google search and got all sorts of advice about what format to shoot in, and whether to de-interlace or not. I want to do my best job, but since I am just getting started I also do not want to cause myself any problems. Everyone raves about the ‘film look’ of 24p. Is it difficult to use/edit? I have my FX1 set to Cinematone, Cineframe 24 (which I think is 24p). Here are my questions:

      In Vegas Pro 8.1 or 9.0 (64 bit), under PROJECT PROPERTIES > VIDEO, do I select:

      HDV 1080-60i, 1440 x 1080, 23.976 fps? Or is it better just to go with 29.970 fps, and set my camera to Cineframe 30 mode?

      Also, when capturing in Vegas, do I de-interlace, or not de-interlace? There are all sorts of opinions out there (and all of them conflict).

      The three choices I see for de-interlacingunder Project Properties are “None”, “Blend Fields”, and “Interpolate Fields.” I would prefer to lose as little resolution as possible. My machine is a CoreDuo Quad at 3.0GHz, with Vista Ultimate 64, and 8GB RAM. I would rather wait a little longer than lose quality.

      Also, in Vegas 8.1, if I convert the captured footage using the Cineform NeoScene codec, do I uncheck OPTIONS > PREFERENCES >GENERAL > “Ignore third party DV codecs”? And where did this check-box go Vegas Pro9?

      I am still studying, but if someone experiencedcould please help me get lined out in “pre”, it would probably save me a lot of time.

      Thank you,

      Norman

    • #166516
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hmm.

      I just noticed that Vegas Pro 9 does not give an option for 1080i at 24fps. It looks like my only option is 29.970 fps. So it looks like I just need to set it for HDV 1080-60i 1440 x 1080, 29.970 fps.

      But do I de-interlace? Or not de-interlace? And if so, which method do I use?

      Thank you,

      Norman

    • #166517
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      That’s correct, you can’t have 1080i24 since 24p is progressive scanning. The only options for 24p are 1080p24, 720p24, and 480p24.

      If you are shooting interlaced footage, then edit interlaced footage. there is no need to deinterlace unless you are posting on the web, but deinterlacing doesn’t come until after you edit anyway. So just edit your interlaced footage.

    • #166518
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hi Rob.

      >>If you are shooting interlaced footage, then edit interlaced footage. there is no need to deinterlace unless you are posting on the web, but deinterlacing doesn’t come until after you edit anyway. So just edit your interlaced footage.

      Thank you for your advice. However, I am definitely planning to post to the web.

      I am not clear at exactly what point I would de-interlace, or how.

      If I understand, I would just feed the tape in without de-interlacing, and then edit everything interlaced. Then before rendering, I would de-interlacewhatever was headed for the web, but not de-interlace anything that was slated for DVD and Blu-Ray; is that correct?

      Thank you very muchfor your help,

      Norman

    • #166519
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/features.php

      The Cineform site says I can extract 24p from 1080i.

      It’s late. I need to surf their site again tomorrow.

      Thank you for your help.

      Norman

    • #166520
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      “I am not clear at exactly what point I would de-interlace, or how.”

      The point when you would de-interlace is AFTER you are finished editing and you are ready to export a file for the web. That is when you de-interlace if your footage was shot as interlaced. If you shot progressive footage, then there is no need to de-interlace.

      “If I understand, I would just feed the tape in without de-interlacing, and then edit everything interlaced.”

      Umm…kinda. You say it as if you have the option to de-interlace while capturing. You cannot de-interlace while capturing unless you have expensive hardware, such as the AJA Kona3 and Xena capture cards. I am guessing you do not have them. So yes, just make sure your capture settings are set for interlaced footage before you capture. Then you will be editing interlaced footage, which is what you want if you shot 1080i.

      “Then before rendering, I would de-interlacewhatever was headed for the web, but not de-interlace anything that was slated for DVD and Blu-Ray; is that correct?”

      Right. But don’t make the mistake of looking for a “de-interlace” filter in your editing program. What the editing program does is drop one of the fields, which is degrading to the image and not truly de-interlacing. Proper de-interlacing requires either hardware, such as those mentioned above, or software dedicated for compression/converting.

      “The Cineform site says I can extract 24p from 1080i.”

      Uhh yes and no. You can transcode anything to anything. There isn’t anything physically stopping you, but that doesn’t mean you should do it. If you choose to, you need a program dedicated to compression/converting. If you want 24p, ideally you should shoot 24p. Exporting 1080i as 24p I doubt will look the same as initially shooting in 24p, nor will it looks as good. Also, you mentioned you are going to post on the web, therefore, 24p is not your best option. Computer screens work at 30p, which is why you have to de-interlace you’re 60i footage.

      Make sense?

    • #166521
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      >>Computer screens work at 30p, which is why you have to de-interlace you’re 60i footage.

      Make sense?

      That part makes perfect sense.If 90+% of my views are probably going to be website, then Ineed to turn it into30p.

      I called Jon at Videoguys, and he said if I just feed in via firewire and then apply the Cineform codec I can turn the footage into 30p, and I should not lose hardly any quality.

      I still have to read the Cineform site again this morning, and then will get back with you.

      Thank you,

      Norman

    • #166522
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      I really don’t have experience with Cineform. If it converts interlaced footage to progressive during capture, that’s cool, but I don’t see a need to get all tied up with that issue. You should have no problems capturing your footage with capture settings that match your shooting settings.

    • #166523
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      I guess I just do not understand what I am into just yet, and want to make sure I do not lose any (or much) resolution.

    • #166524
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      You won’t lose quality if your capture settings match your shooting settings.

    • #166525
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      I am being told that YouTube and Vimeo all convert their stuff to 24p for bandwidth issues, so I should use the Cineform codec to convert to 24p.

      Does that sound right to you?

      Thanks,

      Norman

    • #166526
      AvatarRob
      Participant

      That’s news to me. I didn’t know Youtube converted to 24p. I would experiment with Cineform and see if the output satisfies your needs.

    • #166527
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      That’s what I’m being told. I will attempt to verify, and then let you know.

      Thanks.

    • #166528
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Hi Rob.

      Cineform confirms that I should shoot in Cineframe 24, which will put 24p inside of a 60i interlace. Then when I convert the footage they will extract the original 24p, so I will end up with 24p.

      I still need to confirm what the specs are they are using for YouTube, but I won’t know that until tomorrow.

      See you then,

      Norman

    • #166529
      AvatarNormanWillis
      Participant

      Apparently capture is handled through NeoScene.

      The one downside appears to be that it is not yet compatible with x64, so I will have to install x32 Vegas!

      sigh…after all those upgrades to my workstation!

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