December 29, 2009 at 8:10 AM #45827KenParticipant
Howdy. I’ve been doing post on this short for a while now. Since I place high value on the skills and opinions of people frequenting these forums, I’m going to ask you to peep this before anyone else. (other than my crew)
I know there are a great many issues, so my caveats; the sound is unfinished. I have yet to record foley and balance everything out. Color correction – there were two cameras used on the shoot, an XH-A1, and an HMC-150. They ended up not matching too well. 90% is shot with the HMC-150. I’m sure you will tell when the shot is from the XH-A1, as they look very different.
Aside from the details I’ve yet to dial in, I’m eager to get feedback from other professionals and/or artists. So far the biggest complaint from my crew are the “Van Damme” style multiple hits, where I show a kick 4 times, etc. A difficulty was trying to time the fight to the song that plays. The song was created for the short.
There are 2 clips here, the first is a run-through of the fight, for blocking, to see how well the young lady had learned her moves, etc. The second clip is the real scene, though unfinished.
I appreciate all compliments and critiques!
December 29, 2009 at 8:37 AM #189726AnonymousInactive
I loved it!
I could not really see the difference between the 2 cameras, since i was more concentrated on the fight than on the details. I agree with the crew, i think the whole fight scene is just awesome, but on the part that you showed that kick 4 times, i was like, “what the hell?”..lol
Also, there were some parts that were kinda “slowish” (like on 01:01)..In a real fight, the thing would be faster and more fluid, without so many “pauses”…
While i was watching the wholething, my mind kept bugging me with one thing: Where are the footsteps sounds? But i think you already know that, because you haven’t finished the foley.
Other than that, it was great. I loved watching it, and i am eager for more. =D Be sure to upload the short to Vimeo when you are done. I really want to see the entire thing!
December 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM #189727RobParticipant
nicely done. You really understand how to cut together a fight scene – multiple angles cut together quickly.
Only one thing REALLY bothers me: the girl elbowing the guy in the face at 1:03. It’s blatantly obvious that she is not really hitting him. I think it needs a match cut – start with a shot behind the girl as she winds up and begins to throw the elbow, then cut to behind the guy (the shot you currently have) when he gets hit. That shot when he gets hit could be a little tighter too.
Two things that I think could make a difference: The music just sounds like circus music to me. You cut to the music well, I just don’t think the music is fight scene music…unless it’s two bears fighting each other while they ride unicycles.
Lastly, at the end there is a jump cut when the one cop puts the jacket on the girl’s back. I kinda wanted to see a series of jump cuts there, not just one. Maybe jump cut to her pulling out the cigs, then jump cut to the guy lighting it for her….if it works.
Oh yea, and the “Van Damme” style cuts – I didn’t really mind them, but they should be tightened up a bit…cut together faster, in my opinion.
Over all though, definitely a great job. Damn good lighting too. I’d probably consider this project finished, but keep people’s suggestions in mind for future work.
December 30, 2009 at 12:29 AM #189728composite1Member
Not bad. I’m with Rob on that music. Sounds more for an action comedy, I’m constantly waiting for the gag payoff. I think you overkilled on the elbow smashes. When you do the ‘whiplash replay’ on a particular strike you want to change the angle dramatically w/o breaking the plane. Even when you do it like you did, more than two is redundant.
Otherwise tighten up your cuts and you can cheat up on speed to sell strikes from non-martially trained actors (that first from the floor kick for example.) Since you’re cutting a fight scene nat sounds don’t have to match up 100% (but hits, impacts and response sound fx do) so you can get away with speeding up the portion of the kick. Just to cover, you may need to do it in other places so it won’t look so obvious.
On first look the different camera footage was unnoticeable. Maybe after a second look I might catch it. You still have some work to do on your sound design. In your original post I mentioned using ‘layered sounds’ to add ‘realism’ to your FX sounds to help them sound less ‘canned’. You’ll be surprised at how 2 or 3 layered sounds for a punch or other impact can help sell the effect to audiences.
Lastly, my only other ‘female dog’ is with the officer at the end of the piece with the bullet-proof vest under his shirt. He looks padded like ‘Herman Munster’ and it was distracting. From the look of it the vest was designed to go outside of the shirt and under the jacket.
Otherwise the lighting was good, sound was good and the shooting was just fine. You’ve definitely got an eye for editing. Now you just need to sharpen your chops at ‘finishing’. Here’s a short my company did and 90% of the sound fx are layered, enhanced or both. Just so you know, it’s a horror flick ‘suggested for mature audiences’ which is why I don’t post it here. You also should watch out for the salty language on the stuff you post here as it may get pulled because of it. VM doesn’t want YaIm’s like Shippo to be led down the wrong path….
December 30, 2009 at 7:34 AM #189729PoolboyParticipant
You did a great job. You really made an excellent little movie here. I think you could have a bright future making low budget action films. I would like to see you direct something starring Dolph Lundgren.
I also liked showing the hit multiple times. It added to the style.
The music was good too because it made it light-hearted and fun and I think that is your point
January 1, 2010 at 4:45 AM #189730CraftersOfLightParticipant
Don’t know if this is nit-picking but at the “strangle/head-clamp point (1:14- 1.22), is a continuity issue with the mans left arm in and out of scene with the cuts. I found that to be a very distracting now you see it now you don’t.
The rest of the fight looked okay with maybe speeding up the hits and tightening the multi-hit sections.
January 1, 2010 at 6:26 AM #189731AnonymousInactive
I think its good. Didn’t notice issues with the cameras matching. The only thing that I noticed was the foot smash in the practice run seemed longer than in the final. It wasn’t well lit so I wouldn’t have know what it was unless I had seen the rehearsal. I think the music works, it does have a certain KGB style to it. As for the multiple hit shots… I think they look fine.
January 2, 2010 at 1:04 AM #189732AnonymousInactive
“YaIm’s like Shippo to be led down the wrong path….”??
Composite1, you made me laugh!.. Come on, you are treating me like a child 🙂
January 2, 2010 at 1:21 AM #189733opheliaParticipant
I enjoyed this sample of your work, and agree with most all the above comments. However, my biggest beef is with the actress – she really throws punches like a girl (ditto on kicks). I’d like to see more conviction in her movement all around. This may not be something you personally can control, but, IMHO it weakens the value of the fight scene. Otherwise – KUDOS!
January 2, 2010 at 1:43 AM #189734D0nParticipant
I’m gonna go with ophelias remarks and second them.
you may find it helpful to use some camera “Speed up” tricks to get the snap in the punches and kicks..
have your talent spend some time learning from guys that can throw or take a hit…
any chick that knows how to fight is gonna put one of those spiked heels into an attacker and then get them off as quickly as possible…
I don’t have the kind of experience shooting these scenes as most, but as a guy who in his youth collected more than his fair share if bruises, I can say this: your talent ain’t selling it, even though they got some moves…
it is always the person being hit that really sells the shot…
so I’d say speed up the punch/kick, will help alot, but the guy getting hit needs to sell harder… I mean a kick in the nads with spiked heels should have every male member of your audience swallowing hard as if they need to push two extra adams apples back downstairs where they belong… I’m just not feeling it here…
January 2, 2010 at 6:26 PM #189735mhenningsParticipant
I actually kind of like the funky music, and I noticed everything was timed to the music quite well, but I’m guessing that might be why you stuck in the multiple kicks and such. You might want to ditch the music if it’s holding you back from a faster pace in the fight scene. I didn’t mind the repeat kicks and punches up to 3 shots in a row, but a 4th shot is a little excessive I think.
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