Videomaker – Learn video production and editing, camera reviews › Forums › Technique › Editing › Advice About Sony Vegas Pro 8
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March 5, 2009 at 4:11 PM #46837AnonymousInactive
I am considering Sony Vegas Pro 8 since Sony is having the big 35% off sale right now. I have a desktop computer running XP Home Edition with 3 gigs of ram, a 2.4 gig Quad core processor, nvidea 9800 video card and a laptop with Vista Premium 64 bit edition with 4 megs ram and 1.8 gig Core 2 duo processor and 8800 series Nvidea card. I have read that there are some bugs in Veagas Pro, specifically when it comes to 64 bit operating systems.
I have been using Sony Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro on the desktop and Sony MS Plat on the laptop with no issues to speak of. I would like to access the advanced features of the Vegas Pro for use in my project. There have been rumors that Vegas Pro 9 will come out this year. Do you think it will be worth my while to upgrade to Vegas Pro now?
March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #192834
Reads like you’ve got an adequate setup to run Vegas 8 on either computer. Haven’t run into any ‘bugs’ with Vegas yet on our 32 or 64-bit systems yet, but will keep an eye out.
Though I’m a hardcore Avid/Premier editor, we picked up Vegas 7 to compliment our audio pipeline of Acid and Soundforge. When ver. 8 came out the upgrade was $99. We’ve cut a narrative short with 7 and some high-end corporate videos with 8 and it worked well except for one beef. Like other programs, Vegas will allow you to playback the timeline in realtime but only if you don’t have any effects involved. That little detail almost cost us a client when we needed to do a quick ‘burn’ out to tape. With most other programs that support realtime effects if you have a firewire connected camera you can record to tape as the timeline plays out. Vegas will insist that you do a pre-render or a full render and won’t playback your effects. The only way we got through that was to render each completed segment as we went along. It was reminiscent of Premiere of old.
Far as getting 8 now is not a bad idea. Sony is wacky when it comes to their cameras, but really good about support form their multimedia software line. Upgrades are usually very cheap (Adobe are you listening?) so you can get on with editing and upgrade when 9 comes out. One thing I suggest you consider for future pc purchases is to steer clear of ‘Home’ and ‘Premium’ versions of Windows for your editing and graphic work. XP Pro and Vista Business gives you far more control of the OS and don’t come with all of the ‘gimmicky’ software bundled in. I’ve used XP Pro since ’02 and it’s been a stable OS and we’ve been working with Vista Biz since January and are quite pleased with its performance so far.
March 5, 2009 at 7:13 PM #192835AnonymousInactive
Thanks you for responding to my message. What you said makes sense and I will probably take advantage of the price break being offered by Sony now.
I purchased Vista Ultimate in order to get the shadow copies and better backup, but I could have done as well with Vista Business. With XP, well, it was more affordable at the time and I didn’t have any real “business” applications I was doing with the machine. The main difference is that the “higher” versions of Vista have more multimedia software bundled with it; a waste since I never use them. I had application incompatibilities and a lot of trouble with 3D when I tried to upgrade my desktop to Vista–but new video card drivers and software updates have allieviated many issues. Vista 64 bit is problematic, not everything plans nicely with it; I hope that software vendors catch up as it seems that 64 bit is becoming more prevalent. I don’t expect that we’ll have as many issues with Windows 7 from what I’ve been reading. It uses fewer system resources and is likely to just come in a home and business edition and not all the various Vista flavors.
March 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM #192836
You’re more than welcome for the info. Just as an aside, I didn’t get Vista Biz 64-bit initially because of the lack of software support at the time. Actually, now with SP1 quite a bit of my old 32-bit programs and plugins work just fine. Now we did run into some issues with printers as they didn’t have drivers up yet (which for the most part they either had no intention of making them or were just lazy about getting them out.) The initial build had XP Pro 32-bit SP3, but it was irking me that we had invested in 4GB of RAM but the system could only see 2.5 -2.75 at best. Finally, I had the tech’s order Vista Biz 64-bit and I’ve said it in other posts, ‘I could kick myself for not getting it sooner’. Now we have an older 32 bit XP NLE system we use for printing and junk leaving the 64 free to do graphics and video work. We bumped up the RAM to 8 Gigs and put in a second 512MB NVIDIA class video card and long render times are a thing of the past. Concerning Win 7, I’ll wait for a year or two after it comes out to allow the bugs to get worked out and the software we rely on to become compatible. Right now Vista Biz is a worthy successor to XP Pro so we’ll roll with that. It’s too bad Microsoft dropped the ball on advertising and trying to be all ‘Appley’. The beauty of windows has always been it isn’t an apple OS. The more they try to emulate ‘macieness’, the more they undermine the platform’s strengths. Oh and Vista Biz doesn’t have any of those goofy media programs on it to get in the way. Moviemaker is still on there however (at least it has its limited uses) and they have ‘widgets’, excuse me ‘gadgets’ that you can ‘mac-up’ your desktop with. Honestly….
March 6, 2009 at 5:00 AM #192837AnonymousInactive
if you are going to utilize the 64 bit os, then you want to get Vegas Pro 8.1
March 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM #192838AnonymousInactive
I agree that Vista was simply a thinly veiled attempt to Mac Up the Windows OS. I read a lot of PC magazines and apparently Windows 7 is nothing more than revamping of Vista’s code with less intrusive IAC and a new desktop interface. Given the fact it seems nothing more than an improvement of Vista, trying to fix Vista’s flaws, I expect that it wouldn’t be the nasty bug nest that Vista was when it was released; we’ll see.
I wanted to try Vegas Pro 8c on my laptop before attempting 8.1, the main reason for this is that I also have plugins ins and Cinescore that I want to be able to use. From what I’ve been reading, plugins and Cinescore aren’t supported by version 8.1; apparently some of the other program features won’t work either. I’m also maxed out at 4 gigs of RAM–apparently 8.1 was designed partly to address more than four gigs of RAM. So if I’m not satified with the performance of 8c I’ll give 8.1 a go, but I won’t be happy about not being able to use some of the features of the program. I’m hoping that Sony releases a patch that will clear up these limitations for 64 bit.
March 7, 2009 at 3:28 AM #192839agaribaParticipant
I’ve been a serious Sony Vegas fan and user from version 6 through Vegas Pro-8c; Last week I began experiencing problems where the render would shut down during a normal render, and I was wondering if any other users were experiencing the same issue. I am running Vegas on a dell XPS710 with Windows XP Media edition. The Sony folks suggested I reinstall my copy of Pro8c, and during the install it required me to get a new authentication code from Sony. After attempting to re-install, the program will not reinstall because of Netframework 3.0 issues. I reinstalled windows, I found an automated patch, but one week later, and I am not able to install my software or get appropriate help with same. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing??? I paid retail for all of my copies and my upgrades, but nothing is working. HELPPPPPPPPPP
March 7, 2009 at 8:59 PM #192840
Part of your problem is having Media Edition on a system you want to edit on. Graphic and NLE software take up huge amounts of computer resources when operational and can create conflicts with the host OS by virtue of the additional video and audio codecs they’ll dump on your ‘puter. Media Center is a good program for interfacing television and computers for presentations and stuff, but I always had problems with conflicts between NLE software and MC. Normally, I just keep that stuff separated. I’ve found that systems running XP that are free of all those ‘add-ins’ Microsoft tries to toss in run far more powerfully and efficiently.
Now I’ve had some issues with Vegas involving the Media Library and having to render all effects prior to ‘hard playback’ recording via a firewire device. Your situation however is rather odd so bear with me on these next questions;
Were you rendering out to SD or HD?
Do you have enough RAM or a fast enough CPU to meet the system requirements?
Have you contacted Dell about these issues?
Sony’s high-end multimedia software always installs Netframework, so did you do a clean uninstall of NF before trying to reinstall Vegas?
When you tried to authenticate your software, did you use the original sofware S/N or the upgrades?
Based on the info you provided, these are some of the most likely troubleshooting questions that immediately came to mind.
March 25, 2009 at 2:45 PM #192841
Composite1, I have Vista Ultimate 64 bit and Vegas Pro 8.1. I am very interested to learn more about why you prefer Avid and Premiere. Is it just because of the real-time rendering of effects? Or are there other advantages as well?
March 26, 2009 at 4:26 AM #192842
I don’t necessarily like Avid, Premeire or Vegas over the other. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I have worked with Premeire and Avid for a long time and didn’t start working with Vegas until ’07. When the software giants listened to their marketing departments and decided to link up their software in a proprietary fashion, I had to readjust my work pipeline. I did my serious offline editing with Avid and my short-fuse projects that didn’t require a lot of finishing with Premeire. What attracted me to Vegas was my long association with ACID and Sound Forge. My company got an unexpected sponsorship from a large corporation and my avid setup was too outdated for what we were going to produce. Premeire at the time wasn’t up to the task either, so I took a chance and got Vegas 7. Since I had experience with the editing setup it was easy to get the primary editor on the project up to speed and it was fairly smooth for me to do the finishing edit. I didn’t run across the real-time rendering (lack of) bump until I was working on a big corporate project. Needless to say, despite upgrading to ver 8 I did not expect that so powerful an editing program didn’t have real-time rendering capability (heck of a time to find out 2 hours before a presentation to clients!) With Avid and Premeire’s older versions you could do a ‘direct burn’ to tape without having to render the whole timeline. Though at the time we had a fast machine it still took hours to render effects and transitions! That little tidbit almost cost us the gig.
Now, we are rolling with a combo of Adobe Production Suite CS3 and Vegas 8, ACID 7 and SF 9. Eventually, we’ll get Media Composer as well because we do a good deal of collaboration and bigger outfits use it or FCP. Premeire Pro is a much better program since 6.0 (the last ver we bought) and now it’s fully capable of doing finishing work since it is intergrated with AFX, Phoshop and Illst8r. Audio production wise Soundbooth can’t hold a candle for ACID and SF with the planets and the cosmos aligned, so we’re still deep with those. Vegas we use for our corporate stuff though you can do finishing work with it as well. However, Sony’s pipeline includes Boris products which despite my strong technical gene I never could figure out how to use any of it. Not to mention Adobe’s pipeline is still master of the universe for finishing.
I dig Vegas though. It’s an excellent program, low learning curve, got some powerful tools (though that new titler leaves much to be desired), has some intergration with Adobe products and combined with ACID and SF can stand in the same room with Avid, FCP and Pro-Tools and trade punches without the proprietary hardware to back it up. Oh and for a lot less money! It’s only real Achilles’ Heel is that %$#@^&*! lack of real-time rendering. WUWT?
Hope that answers your question.
March 26, 2009 at 4:55 PM #192843
>>>I dig Vegas though. It’s an excellent program, low learning curve, got some powerful tools (though that new titler leaves much to be desired), has some intergration with Adobe products and combined with ACID and SF can stand in the same room with Avid, FCP and Pro-Tools and trade punches without the proprietary hardware to back it up. Oh and for a lot less money! It’s only real Achilles’ Heel is that %$#@^&*! lack of real-time rendering. WUWT?
I don’t know why they do that. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Speaking of real-time rendering, perhaps you would know. I’m trying to figure out how to get the best combination of real-time in between Sony Vegas and CS4.
Mynew boxhas two PCIe x16 Gen 2.0 slots. My gen 1.0 video card (GeForce 8600 GT Super +1GB) is in the top slot, and I ponder continually what to do with the bottom slot. They say a Matrox RT.X2 (full size) will allow one to render two layers of HD and two layers of effects in real time in Premiere Pro CS4, but it would do nothing for Sony Vegas. The other option is that a Quadro CX card (basically a C1060/1070 Tesla GPU card) is supposed to accelerate rendering in CS4, although it still does not make itreal time.
When the C1060 card first came out, I was on the Sony Media Software site, checking to see if they had plans tosupport theC1060/1070 Tesla. They said something cryptic (like, “Q: Surely you have plans to support the new GPU processing cards? A: Sony Media Software is always looking for ways to take advantage of newer technologies, to give you the creative edge; but of course we cannot comment on plans for future releases), and then later I went to find that comment again, but I could not find it. (I think it used to be in their FAQ). Sony is pretty secretive about their plans, but I wonder if they are planning to support GPU cards in Vegas Pro 9?
If Sony doessupport the Quadro CX (C1070 Tesla) card, then that might be the way to go, since it would speed up both Sony and Premiere. However, Videomaker magazinedid a writeup on the Quadro CX card, and they said that A: it is really expensive, and B: it really only helps if you have an older machine with not that many cores. http://www.videomaker.com/article/14297/2/
Right now I have a CoreDuo (2 core) at 3.0 GHz. I am eyeballing the Q9650 four core at 3.0 GHz, but am waiting for it to come down in price (because right now I am busy learning HTML).Right now it is at $330.00, but I think it will eventually drop lower than that.
So if I have four cores and 8GB RAM on a 64 bit machine, how much help is a really expensive GPU card going to help? Or should I just forget about all the GPU cardand get a Matrox, so I can render multiple layers of HD and effects in real time (and use the Magic Bullet Suite)?
Orfrom what you are saying, Premiere Pro already supports real-timerendering???? But is that in SD or HD, and with layers of effects?
March 26, 2009 at 6:24 PM #192844
Hopefully this won’t turninto a ‘dissertation’, buthere’s what I’velearned from our setup; First off, know that Vegas is primed for AMD based systems. Why they didn’t get hard into GPU support I have no idea. Now our latest build (we build all of our NLE’s cheaper, faster, more powerful) I decided to go with pentium (though I’m a huge AMD fan.) Primarily the switch was made because Avid and Adobe are primed for compatablity with pentium to support crossplatform systems. AMD’s only work on PC’s (thank god! I wouldn’t want to watch any more commercials involving macie’s dancing because of how ‘powerful’ they’d become again) hence Vegas only works on PC’s. Like I said, we do a lot of collaborating and I wanted to stay crossplatform. Now the system we built has a 2.4 Ghz Quad Core OC’d to 2.8(we’ll upgrade when prices drop) 8GB SLI-ready RAM and 2 PNY 512GBGeoforce 8800 GT’s (we could put one more in but that would only help for 3D animation and it blocks a usable PCI slot.) Total harddrive space comes in at 5.5TB + 1TB external PCIe drive. Ultimately, this system was designed to support Media Composer, but Premeire and AFX have really benefitted from it. Render times have dropped significantly compared to our older machines and when this one was running WinXP Proat 32-bit (never going back.) Now we’re running Vista Biz at 64-bit and this thing ‘humms’ like a new sportscar.
Far as getting an expensive chip and graphics card, as the guy who signs the checks and approves equipment orders I’m waaaaay too ‘skinflinty’ to blow $300 bucks on a chip or a grand on a card when there are cheaper and good alternatives. In another discussion thread I touched on the value of high-end cards versus less expensive but powerful gamer cards. Yeah, a 3.+ Quadcore CPU would run faster than a 2.4 overclocked, but the benchmark figures haven’t impressed me enough to make it worth the money. Getting a ‘big bohonkin’ graphics card may have better architecture buit in for realtime rendering, but when I can get two gamer cards that do the same thing with the same amount of RAM for $400 – $1200 less…. Oh yeah, and should you decide to use two graphic cards make sure they’re the exact same make and model. That will save you a ton of grief.
Fortunately it seems you are doing some hard research into what you want to put into your system. Whether it’s a high-end this, or a high-end that, it all comes down to what your output is going to bring in to pay for itself. Meaning, if you’re doing high-end work for broadcast, theatrical release or mainstream DVD distribution, then the money you invest in gear will be balanced by the profits that come. Now with all that in mind, the tech available these days can get you PDC to the look of high-end distribution for a lot less money. Vegas is a program that can help with that. Now when we edit with it once a scene is completed, we just render it. Doing it that way is reminiscent of old-time Avid and Premeire, but the scenes render a lot faster and the work flows faster. It would be better if it did real-time rendering, but hopefully that will come with ver 9. Oh and Premeire supports rendering in SD with some support for HD (I’ll have to get back to you on the HD rendering.)
Lastly, far as Magic Bullet goes, most of the stuff they offer in plug-ins you can already do in Vegas. Vegas has a good color correction tool so you can get that ‘Puke Neo Green’ or ‘WWII Sepia Tone’ on your own. Learn how to get the most out of your supplied tools so when you look for plug-ins you’ll know what will really be useful to you.
March 27, 2009 at 7:32 AM #192845
I definitely caught some of that. AndI don’t minddissertations.I have about a bazillion questions, and your responses are an answer to prayer.
From where I sit (i.e., knowing almost nothing),the main thing is to maximize my time. Dollars arelimited, but time is critical.I am basically a “one man show” here, soI need to do whatever I reasonably can that willsave time, and money, andmaximize productivity all at once. However,your letter really set me back.I got theVideoguys’ new DIY article (http://www.webvideoguys.com/newwebsite03-09/DIY7.html) right before I got your post, andIrealized that for not much more than the cost of a Quadro CX card I could have a whole new box, withmuch faster architecture. Also, I guess they have a new class of video card out (GTX 260/280) that has multiple cores similar to the Quadro CX, so that would seem like the Quadro CX cardis not the best use of cash (although I am not 100% sure about the Matrox).
Would you mind commenting on my new box? The old one crashed, and Dell replaced it. Ijust want toease any potential bottlenecks, if it can be done for reasonable numbers.
Dell Precision T3400 Workstation, 575W PSU, CoreDuo 3.0GHz (2 cores), 8GM Crucial Ballistix RAM, 4GB ReadyBoost RAM, Vista Ultimate 64, Palit GeForce 8600GT Super +1GB (Only Gen 1.0 card, while I have two Gen 2.0 slots).C: is two 250GB WD Caviar 7200 RPM’s in RAID 0, backing up to an external USB HDD via Symantec Backup Exec.D: is two 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM drives in RAID 0,backing upvia eSata to a 1.5TB Seagate HDD (which does not quite cover it, but I have not got started yet, so it is OK). I am thinking about upgrading to a Drobo for backup of D:.
For video cards,I just chatted with Dell. They tell me I cannot run SLI, as this motherboard has an Intel Bearlake X chipset (which does not support SLI). So I can run with this video card for now, butI could probably geta GTX 260 for about $180 (or less if I wait until I am done learning HTML). I have no idea which manufacturers are best, but here is one from Tiger Direct: (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4369730&CatId=1839).It comes withextra GPU cores, and it is aGen 2.0 card, and it isa lot less expensive than a Quadro 1700 (and I am not planning on buying Boris Blue).
Would either of those things help speed up the system? And also, do you hyperthread?
Thank you very much for your help,
March 27, 2009 at 6:38 PM #192846
Looks like we’ve commondeered Toms’ post. We and any others interested in this topic can pick it back up in the new thread, ‘To build or not to build’.
and you’re welcome.
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