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Poll: What editing program do you use?

DigitalVideo's picture
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 09/18/2005 - 1:24am
I'll start. Right now it's 9 Pinnacle. Pinnacle works alright now but creative control is not here. I'm looking at upgrading to sony or adobe. Not sure as of yet. I love the easy format but stick and paste effects is very limiting. I tried to do layers with 2 video files to make a cool effect, Played while on computer but when I tried to burn it got to that point in the production and froze up. Tried couple times to same result.
Went to Pinnacle's web site to possibly purchase plug-ins. All plug in effects looked low quality with cheese on top.
Love to hear everyones response.
Michael

svhs's picture
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2005 - 1:08am
Pinnacle Studio 9.4.3, bundled with my AV/DV editing board
will upgrade to 10+ after it's stable.
Limited experience with Premiere, Vegas and Avid. Pinnacle is just what I need for my projects.

phillips719's picture
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/07/2005 - 11:58am
I recently installed Sony's Vegas 6 on my Windows computer. Installation was straightforward, no crashes. Program looks wonderfull and seems easy to use although I've only had about 2 hours playing with some short clips since I got it. Playback is smooth. Scripting looks wonderfull. Still need to burn DVD so I can't comment on that at this time. Help menu's are extensive.
I give it a solid 10 at this time.

SteveShilson's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/11/2005 - 11:56am
I use Sony's Vegas 6 and I've been using it since the 4th edition. I absolutely love it. . .Also, I work at a production company and we edit with Premiere and when comparing the two, I find Vegas to be alot more customizable and has alot of little in-timeline shortcuts that makes a big difference in making workflow a fair amount faster. So yeah, Sony Vegas 6. :)

compusolver's picture
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/16/2004 - 8:16am
Premiere Pro.

When used with After Effects, Encore, Audition, Photoshop & Illustrator, it's more powerful than Vegas. I don't know what timeline shortcuts the above poster is referring to, but when laying tracks out on a timeline and working with them there instead of in the "Source monitor", I can't imagine how anything could be any faster.

By the way, this forum program has a "Poll" feature which the admin/moderator has currently turned off. Why not turn it on?

Captured-Films's picture
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/10/2005 - 6:54pm
I have both pinnacle 9 and Vegas 6. To me vegas is much more powerful and more stable. Thats just my opinion.

Nick

SteveShilson's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/11/2005 - 11:56am
[quote="compusolver"]Premiere Pro.

When used with After Effects, Encore, Audition, Photoshop & Illustrator, it's more powerful than Vegas. I don't know what timeline shortcuts the above poster is referring to, but when laying tracks out on a timeline and working with them there instead of in the "Source monitor", I can't imagine how anything could be any faster.
quote]

I use After Effects, Audition and Photoshop with Vegas just aswell as I do with Premiere. Really, I guess it's all in personal preference. . .I feel that I can utilize Vegas alot better than I can with Premiere. BUT I also have alot more hours logged using Vegas. . .As for the timeline shortcuts, I'd kinda have to show you, it's little things that go a long way for me. . .everything is right there in Vegas, in Adobe you have to go through Menu's for some things. Both have their advantages, it's all in personal preference.

I'm Steve btw and I'm glad I finally signed up here. It seems like a cool place to discuss stuff like this.

Rocktooloud's picture
Last seen: 9 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/22/2005 - 2:24pm
I completely agree with Compusolver. Besides, Adobe just announced the Video Bundle, which will contain all new software: http://www.adobe.com/products/bundles/video_bundle.html
And Adobe just aquired Macromedia, so you'll get Flash products as well.[/url]

SFChuck's picture
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/16/2005 - 2:25pm
I'm using Pinnacle Studio Plus v10...but I'm kinda sorry I made that decision. I'd been looking at Premier Elements at the same time but picked Pinnacle because they were acquired by Avid. My hope was there would be an upgrade path to Xpress at some point in time. In the meantime, Studio Plus v10 is not stable and crashes a lot. That really hurts the workflow. On paper it looks great but the devil, as they say, is in the details.

DigitalVideo's picture
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 09/18/2005 - 1:24am
Looked at pinnacle web site the other day and saw there releasing Avid Liquid 7. New updated version to 6. Anyone order yet or upgrade? Love to hear some responses about this program.

WmG
WmG's picture
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/11/2005 - 9:13pm
Premiere Pro!

For awhile I used Pinnacle DV300/DV500/Pro One/Edition but gave up on that line and went back to Adobe.

Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm
I started out w/ Zio Corporation RealTime Video EVE, but that program was horrible. Really bad quality video. I made a VCD, and the framerate was awful, and every few seconds it would skip frames.

Then I went to Pinnacle Studios 9.4.3. The quality was loads better, but I couldn't get any sound out of the DVC 80 that was bundled with the software. Also, the program kept shutting down during rendering--it ruined a 15 minute video that took me hours to make...AARRGG!!!

Finally I use Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5.1 now, and couldn't be happier...quality is amazing, and the different transitions and effects are great!

...One other thing--I HATED how Pinnacle had all these great transitions and effects, but you had to spend loads more money to unlock them!!!!

chicoab3's picture
Last seen: 9 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/08/2005 - 1:47pm
Final Cut Pro here. It's the most stable system I have used. And, I think it's the most fun to color correct with.

Since Premiere 4.0, I've used most of the editors available.

-a

FairyTaleProductions's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2005 - 9:43am
I have extensive experience with Avid, Final Cut, and Premiere Pro. Currently I use Premiere Pro. I think it's really easy to navigate. The program just seems like second nature to me, everything is where it it supposed to be. Final Cut can be a little clumsy (I bet I'll get hate mail for that claim), and Avid is so damn expensive.

What can be even more important than the software you're using to edit can be the hardware you load it on. Make sure you're computer is up to the standards set by the editing software, and then upgrade a notch to ensure smooth sailing. You're freezing and crashing problems could be related to the operating system not your editing software.

SFChuck's picture
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/16/2005 - 2:25pm
RE: My post of Dec 13th, I've got to sheepishly admit that at least some of my troubles with Pinnacle Studio Plus 10 may have been self-inflicted.

Yesterday I increased the DDR memory in my system from the minimum requirement of 512 MB to Pinnacle's recommendation of 1 GB. As I was generating some primitive animations in JPG format I noticed that the system was quickly and easily rendering the images on which it used to choke.

It did crash when I trimmed two contiguous JPGs to 1 second and 15 frames each...one of the same problems I had before the memory size increase...so Studio Plus 10 is still not out of the woods as far as I'm concerned. But now it apparently doesn't crash as often.

Am I damning Avid/Pinnacle with faint praise?

Americangreg's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/29/2005 - 3:54am
I used to edit with Premiere Pro, but I've made the switch to apple and I'm learning Final Cut Pro now. I must say, it's pretty nice :D

TrinaM's picture
Last seen: 8 years 5 months ago
Joined: 02/08/2006 - 4:06pm
Started on Pinnacle 5.0...now on to Liquid 7.0, anxiously awaiting the SP2, which should be out this week (according to Avid)!

I LOVE this program. BUT, don't upgrade until the service pack is out...there are plenty of bugs, but once they're cleaned up, hot diggity dog. The learning curve is sizable, but if you're using Studio 9 I'd recommend it if you want more control, more creativity, and HD capabilities.


BTS
BTS's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 02/01/2006 - 7:09am
Pinnacle 9+. Have the 10 upgrade but have simply been too lazy to install it... Love it when it works, but intermittent problems slows me down and frustrates me to no end.

Moviegirl11's picture
Last seen: 8 years 5 months ago
Joined: 02/24/2006 - 11:02pm
I'm using Vegas 4.0 (I know I need to upgrade but it is still good to use anyway) I absolutely love Vegas. I have Pinnacle Studio 9 but I don't like using it very much. I use it to add transitions as it has some really good ones. I rarely use it.
I am very comfortable using Vegas so it's the best for me. So easy to use! :D

compusolver's picture
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/16/2004 - 8:16am
Notice that hardly anyone can say the name "Pinnacle" without including words like "problems"; "bugs"; etc. That should be a warning to everyone! I still have my Studio 9+ for some of the effects, but 99% of editing I now do with Premiere Pro after having tried Vegas about two years ago.

Those looking to enter the industry though, should look at Avid or FCP.

rbradleyc's picture
Last seen: 8 years 5 months ago
Joined: 02/21/2006 - 5:57pm
I was thinking of investing in Avid Express Pro. Does anyone have any opinions on using this program vs. any others?

svhs's picture
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2005 - 1:08am

compusolver Wrote:

Those looking to enter the industry though, should look at Avid or FCP.

Avid is the industry standard and will probably stay so for a long time.
Beware though, it has a very steep learning curve (actually it's the most difficult computer software I've ever dealt with) and it works in a proprietory format. And of course it takes a monster PC to run it, but you should get used to that, if you want to do video.

TrinaM's picture
Last seen: 8 years 5 months ago
Joined: 02/08/2006 - 4:06pm
Avid recently bought Liquid Edition -- should be interesting what happens with the program now. My 7.0 + sp2 runs like a dream and golly, 7.1 should be the "it" program. I've tried out the consumer version Studio and it was okay...drove me nuts, actually.

I've taught Liquid edition to 15 yr olds -- if they can get the hang of it, anyone can!

birdcat's picture
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2005 - 10:09am
Plus Member Moderator

svhs Wrote:

Avid is the industry standard and will probably stay so for a long time.


I beg to differ - I believe (even though I have never used it) that Final Cut Pro is the industry standard. I have heard stories of clients demanding it be used over all others.

Personally, I looked at Avid (after using Pinnacle, Adobe and MS Movie Maker) and chose Vegas as it is extremely powerful, has great support through the Sony forums and I was able to some amazing things in only a few days.

Bruce Paul 7Squared Productions http://www.7squared.com


Video-maniac's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/19/2006 - 9:52am

birdcat Wrote:

I beg to differ - I believe (even though I have never used it) that Final Cut Pro is the industry standard. I have heard stories of clients demanding it be used over all others.


That's not entirely true. I think we're talking about 2 different classes of users here. Avid by far is considered the platform of choice for all of the high end and profesional cutting houses and studios. Hollywood, major networks and other larger studios use this or some aspect thereof. Of course Avid is very expensive and requires a lot of expertise and hardware. Naturally these big places can afford that.

Now for the smaller outfit, Avid might be out of reach or maybe in some cases, overkill for the type of work that's being done. Here is where FCP, Adobe PP, Vegas and so fourth come into play.

Birdcat: What to you mean when you say "clients demand that FCP be used?" Are you refering to the end client like maybe "Coke" or "Miller"? If that's the case and I was the president of "Coke" what would I care what was used to make my commerical as long as it looks good?

birdcat's picture
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2005 - 10:09am
Plus Member Moderator

Video-maniac Wrote:


Birdcat: What to you mean when you say "clients demand that FCP be used?" Are you refering to the end client like maybe "Coke" or "Miller"? If that's the case and I was the president of "Coke" what would I care what was used to make my commerical as long as it looks good?


I am simply referring information I have read from other users. Recently there was a topic on the official Vegas Forums of someone who was using Vegas for years for a particular client, and when they found out he was not using FCP they stopped using his services - in the end, they liked his work so they did come back to him for small projects but the person who wss paying him (I will find the thread and post the link here tomorrow) was insisting he use FCP if he wanted more work.

As for Avid being the NLE of choice, I have not heard that anywhere but here. I'm not claiming to be an expert by any stretch, but in my limited experience the only "official" NLE of choice I've heard of by Hollywood has been FCP (however, as I said, I've never used it).

Here is the link to that message:
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=436249

Bruce Paul 7Squared Productions http://www.7squared.com


Video-maniac's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/19/2006 - 9:52am
birdcat,

A few comments regarding your first paragraph:

First of all you have to take each post you read with a grain of salt. Just because you read on this post that a guy lost a client based on his NLE brand doesnt mean that this is a major trend or that this happens all the time. This is one guy out of a kagillion editors that this actually happened too.

Secondly, I find that truly amazing that a client who loves this guys work the whole time all of a sudden drops him just because he finds out hes using a certain editing system. Im sure you and everyone else reading this for that mater must find that WACKED! Its like going to your favorite breakfast joint for 5 years because they have the best hash browns in the world but then you find out that theyre cooking them on an electric stove instead of gas stove so you stop going. Its all about the finished product! WHO CARES how you got there! WOW!

As far as your second paragraph:

Im not going to get into an argument because I think were still talking about two different things here. Im more or less talking about Super Studios and TV stations where you are (I think anyway) talking about basic stand alone NLE systems. Im not bashing FCP by any means because it is VERY good NLE but (IMO) it still comes down to personal preferences in the end.

RAM

birdcat's picture
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2005 - 10:09am
Plus Member Moderator

Video-maniac Wrote:


This is one guy out of a kagillion editors that this actually happened too.


This is only one example of stories I have heard of clients demanding FCP be used. I was speaking to one guy at the last VideoMaker East who was bemoaning that to secure a contract with one particular client this guy had to go out and but a Mac with FCP if he wanted the deal - He was an Avid user and would have preferred to keep it that way but how do you turn away big $$$.

Video-maniac Wrote:

it still comes down to personal preferences in the end.


I personally think that is the crux of the whole matter - Everyone has a preference for NLE (some more than one). I have found my comfort zone with Vegas, others prefer Avid, other FCP, I even know one guy who actually likes Windows Movie Maker (go figure). As long as the tool does what you need to get the job out on time and on budget, that's the right tool for you.

Just MHO.

Bruce Paul 7Squared Productions http://www.7squared.com


hidef1080's picture
Last seen: 8 years 5 months ago
Joined: 02/09/2006 - 12:40am
I use/used Premerier Elements and I tried the trial version of Pro 2.0.

Now I believe I'll be making the move over to Sony Vegas.
I like/liked Adobe and maybe I should not base my move on a trial version but I can't see $800 plus for something that will have me pulling my hair out.

If only Adobe had HDV support in Elements!! All would be right in my world.

Sony, I'm coming with money in hand! Take me to Vegas.

Video-maniac's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/19/2006 - 9:52am

birdcat Wrote:

I personally think that is the crux of the whole matter - Everyone has a preference for NLE (some more than one). I have found my comfort zone with Vegas, others prefer Avid, other FCP, I even know one guy who actually likes Windows Movie Maker (go figure). As long as the tool does what you need to get the job out on time and on budget, that's the right tool for you.


Bruce, I totally agree with you 100%!

I'm an Adobe guy myself and if someone was to ask me why I went with them over anybody else... my answer is simple. It's because that was the first NLE system I started with many moons ago and I just never left. It's not because I think it's the best I just picked that one and went with it.

RAM

P.S Abobe Premiere Pro is the best! Heee Heee JUST KIDDING! X-D

birdcat's picture
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2005 - 10:09am
Plus Member Moderator

Video-maniac Wrote:

I think we're talking about 2 different classes of users here. Avid by far is considered the platform of choice for all of the high end and profesional cutting houses and studios. Hollywood, major networks and other larger studios use this or some aspect thereof. Of course Avid is very expensive and requires a lot of expertise and hardware. Naturally these big places can afford that.

Now for the smaller outfit, Avid might be out of reach or maybe in some cases, overkill for the type of work that's being done. Here is where FCP, Adobe PP, Vegas and so fourth come into play.


I must apologize here - I looked into this and you are indeed correct about Avid - I had never heard of or seen the high end portion of their offerings. Probably due to the cost of their "professional" line. The only stuff from them I had seen was the consumer/prosumer line, which is not what is being used by Hollywood/TV studios.

Again, my humble and public apologies.

Bruce Paul 7Squared Productions http://www.7squared.com


Video-maniac's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/19/2006 - 9:52am

birdcat Wrote:

I must apologize here - I looked into this and you are indeed correct about Avid - I had never heard of or seen the high end portion of their offerings. Probably due to the cost of their "professional" line. The only stuff from them I had seen was the consumer/prosumer line, which is not what is being used by Hollywood/TV studios.

Again, my humble and public apologies.


You don't have to apologize. I kind of figured we were on two different wave lengths. I actually found out that NBC used Avid during the Olympics. The reason you don't hear much about it is because a super loaded system with all of the high end hardware can get up to $35,000.00. These systems can edit HD in real time like it's nothing. I guess you would have to because they don't have time to wait for stuff to render before it goes on the air. The reason this is used all the time is because it can handle any video format out there and it packs a pretty good punch.

You're right though. You never hear that much about the super Avid systems on this forum. They probably have their own special forum were the "BIG DAWGS" bark.

RAM

KBVP's picture
Last seen: 9 years 2 months ago
Joined: 05/10/2005 - 9:34am
The final product is all that counts. Getting to that point is only a matter of preference. I don't do Hollywood productions, mostly marketing, training, seminars, etc. I get to the "finish line" with Applied Magic's Epic. It's a Wavelet based system and real time. It won't search the internet, play games, or do spread sheets- just capture and edit with lightning speed.

Video-maniac's picture
Last seen: 8 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/19/2006 - 9:52am

KBVP Wrote:

The final product is all that counts.


I totally agree and couldn't have said it better than that.

My father once told me, "A tool is only as good as the chump behind it!" X-D

RAM

videolab's picture
Last seen: 9 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/17/2004 - 9:47pm
At work I use Velocity Q and at home I use both Premiere and Final Cut Pro. On occasion just to stay familiar I will use Avid Xpress DV. I enjoy using all of the above but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Velocity is buggy sometimes and crashes at the worst possible time which shouldn't happen with a $10k+ software/hardware package. Premiere is great but lacks in a few areas which I think were fixed in its latest release. (haven't sprung for the upgrade yet) Final Cut is great but I only have a mac mini and it is slow for FCP and FCP's color corrector sucks compared to Premiere's or Avid's. Avid is also cool but awkward to use at times the color corrector is the best out of those listed here. In my opinion all editing software is the same. As long as it has slip editing, a 3 way color corrector, a razor tool, and dissolves I am happy. Also an Avid DS Nitris system can cost upwards of $147,000 without a computer and storage. While FCP has caused Avid to lose much of its market share in key areas; most of the films and many of the television shows you see today ARE edited on an Avid system at some point in the post process. And the advantage of using any avid system is the bottom of the line Avid Xpress DV looks much like the top of the line Media Composer, Symphony, etc..

KBVP's picture
Last seen: 9 years 2 months ago
Joined: 05/10/2005 - 9:34am
I looked into PC editing, but it sounds like everyone still has issues. The Applied Magic editor uses in-house developed software which prevents the third party software problem. If they detect a software issue, a free disc is sent to you. No internet, no viruses, worm holes, etc. If I need to use the PC to do something special, I just import it into the A-M editor. A PC definitely is superior at the 5-10k $$$ range, and with enough third party software, you can do just about anything. The Applied Magic editor is turnkey at about $2,500.(that's loaded) I may get a laptop to do some editing with, but I need to research all the different software options.

DVSS4U's picture
Last seen: 8 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/22/2005 - 7:51am
I beleive that all the NLE and PC based editors out there are ALL GREAT, it is the END RESULT that counts, and its the creativity of in-depth understanding of the Softwares each of us purchase. I personally us the Macrosystems Prestige NLE with native DV and DVD authoring built right in the same unit. I have been using their units since the first model came out, and have produced award winning results over & over again for several years now.

I once told another editor; Its like having a vehicle, one may purchase a Cadillac and another purchase a Lincoln, they both are loaded with features and have great performance,.....in the end they both will take you to the same place of destination. It becomes a personal prefference, of which brand Name to purchase. Alot of folks tend to purchase the platform they were taught on, but we all need to have an open mind towards other choices.
8)


Dotneck's picture
Last seen: 7 years 11 months ago
Joined: 08/22/2006 - 8:10am

KBVP Wrote:

The final product is all that counts. Getting to that point is only a matter of preference. I don't do Hollywood productions, mostly marketing, training, seminars, etc. I get to the "finish line" with Applied Magic's Epic. It's a Wavelet based system and real time. It won't search the internet, play games, or do spread sheets- just capture and edit with lightning speed.


Another Applied Magic Editor here...but I'm in the middle of an 8 hour render...on my real time system. Hope the show plays back after the render....

:'(

Lookin' into other solutions....

KBVP's picture
Last seen: 9 years 2 months ago
Joined: 05/10/2005 - 9:34am
The finished product usually doesn't require *rendering. The transitions can be automatically done using the "Master" key. This will take just a minute or so, depending on the length of the storyboard.

*Applied Magic uses "Merge" instead of render. The difference is that the process is done on a custom chip set instead of the usual PC/MAC workflow.

Although I don't produce "Hollywood" epics, I do edit stories/footage for Discovery, The Learning Channel, and am working on a new National Geographic show- "The Thrill Zone".

compusolver's picture
Last seen: 9 years 7 months ago
Joined: 12/16/2004 - 8:16am
Although I don't produce "Hollywood" epics, I do edit stories/footage for Discovery, The Learning Channel, and am working on a new National Geographic show- "The Thrill Zone".


That's "Hollywood" enough for me! It's great to know that we have some real pros here!

Dotneck's picture
Last seen: 7 years 11 months ago
Joined: 08/22/2006 - 8:10am

KBVP Wrote:

The finished product usually doesn't require *rendering. The transitions can be automatically done using the "Master" key. This will take just a minute or so, depending on the length of the storyboard.

*Applied Magic uses "Merge" instead of render. The difference is that the process is done on a custom chip set instead of the usual PC/MAC workflow.
.


I get a kick out of AP calling it merging...although it is "merging" the transitions...it does that by rendering those bits of video. My 45 minute show will not run...I don't think the machine has enough RAM....so I'm rendering the whole show with the hope that it will run three big chunks of video instead of all the discrete clips. Twelve hours of rendering (oops...I mean merging the clips...) so far (i just burped on section three so I had to start it again. I hope the show will run in the morning so I can burn it. Got another project coming into the shop tomorrow and I gotta get this one done.....

BTW...went to the apple store this evening to look at FCP....