PC vs Mac « Videomaker Community Forums

nobody
Member

Okay it's time again for the old pc vs mac debate again. I've owned two pcs for quite awhile, but I just recently bought an Apple Power Mac G4 and I was just wondering which one and why do you prefer one computer from another. I'm not pro or con either way, but I'm just trying to get some information on the down side and the up side of either type of computer. I know that the pc dominates the market but I'd like to know why. Macintosh seems to be holding it's own in the computer world and they're putting out some powerful computers.
So if anyone's inclined to share their opinions on this, let me know why you prefer one type of computer over another, and tell me what advantages one has over the other. I've heard a lot of people so far since I've been doing some research on this say that macs are better for video editing than the pc. In my case, I'm afraid I'll have to agree with that statement. Both of my pcs put out less than smooth edited video, especially during transitions and effects.
Any replies are welcome.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

There have been horrendous PC vs. MAC debates on this forum in the past; of which I confess I participated "enthusiastically". I must say in retrospect, I along with others on both sides of the issue, completely missed the point. We need to realize that computer hardware alone cannot decide the issue of what's best for video editing. The truth is the latest flavors of both PCs and MACs provide more than enough firepower to be superb performers in the non-linear video production field.

However, when it comes to personal computer-based video editing, it is the software more than the hardware that makes the difference. Also, you have to factor in the cost. On this forum, the prevalent expenditure for hardware/software editing tools is a sub-$1000.00 software investment and a sub-$2000.00 computer investment. It is really great that nowadays someone can invest that little and make a professional living in the video production field.

Within this pricing category, the PC platform undoubtedly offers more choices. This translates to the greatest flexibility, because more options mean more paths to success. On the MAC side, you have the formidable FCP Pro 4. On the PC side you have Adobe Premiere, Vegas, Pinnacle Edition, Ulead Media Pro, an on and on, and on. In fact, for the PC, you might be wise to use Premiere for some things, Vegas for others, and Ulead for even more etc. etc.

As for your comment about "less than smooth edited video", the majority of people on this forum, including myself, use PCs to edit video, and I've never experienced "less than smooth edited video", nor have I seen many complaints of that nature. Therefore, I'd conclude that this is something to do with your hardware/software systems in particular, and not a factor generally attributable to PCs.

No one can honestly deny that you have to have some technical knowledge to use PCs. Unlike Macs, the possible combinations of motherboards; RAM, CPUs, controller cards, etc. are endless. Not every hardware combination is ideal for video editing. In addition, your software might not perform as well with a particular brand of hardware. This is one price you may have to pay for the "open architecture" design of PCs.

If you're using a PC for video editing, my philosophy is to dedicate a machine for that purpose. Keep the installed software to a minimum" and don't use it for surfing the net or playing video games. PCs are cheap enough to own one for general purposes and one for a video editing station. Very general personal guidelines for an ideal PC editing system are: (a) use Intel Motherboards with Intel CPUs; (b) choose at least 512 Megs of the fastest RAM available; (c) Use separate physical ATA100 hard drives for software and video capture/editing (d) for Intel CPUs choose highest clock speed you can afford with hyperthreading, and 800Mhz FSB support being extremely desirable (note: AMD CPU-based systems are probably fine also, but I don't have any experience with them); (e) Use a Sound Blaster Audigy for 24-bit, 7.1 surround audio support, and built-in firewire ports (saves using a separate firewire card); (f) use an ATI All-In-Wonder video card because of its analog capture capability. A PC system like this will hold its own against any available MAC, including dual-processor versions, and can be found for maybe half the price (if you avoid famous Brands)

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Personally, I'd like to try on one of the new Macs. Some people I know who have 'em really boast about their power. However, in my case, due to the fact I use my PC for many things I can't justify just having the Mac for editing. So it looks like I'll stay with my pc for a while.

Changed like Saul,

Chris Folsom
http://www.pbsermons.org
Folsom Audio & Video Productions

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Thank you for your comments. You hit on a couple of things that are interesting regarding the pc vs mac debate. My original question on this really stems more from my problems I'm having with video editing than the debate about one vs the other. I've owned pcs for about four years now, and I know I'm just scratching the surface as far as understanding them or being able to run one to it's full capacity. I've recently gotten into video editing with computers just earlier this year, so I'm still learning about it and gradually being able to utilize all the features on some of the video software programs that I have. Video editing on a computer I'm finding out has enormously huge potential for the average consumer to be able to spice up their home videos to make them look like polished professional productions, which I think is very important especially to someone who makes their living in that field.
I'm not really one of those people who need to create professional productions or anything, I just want to experiment with video editing to see what I can create for myself, since I'm an addict for high tech devices.
I've been dissappointed with the performance of my pcs as far as being able to create pro looking videos however. You hit on a couple of points that might be key to my problems. First of all, I do use both of my pcs to get on the internet. I don't use computer games, and I've only added one video editing software to my pcs since I've been trying this. I wish someone could see my videos after I edit them so that you can see what they look like and why they're not acceptable. I'm talking about frame drop outs basically, which pretty much ruins the effect. I would think that computers should be able to produce an edited video that has absolutely no frame drop outs and could be equivelant to the fades and other effects that you'd see on a tv commercial or a big budget movie. You're comment that suggested to me that I use a dedicated machine for video editing only confirms to me that my pcs have been corrupted in some way that prevents them from producing smooth video.
I'm surprised actually that you said that you've not seen anyone complain about frame drop outs with video on pcs. I see it all the time on some of these forums, so it's not like the problem doesn't exist. The question is; what causes it and how can it be prevented? As I mentioned, I have limited knowledge when it comes to computers and don't know how to "tune" my computer so that it will work the way I want it to.
I do plan on using the mac as a dedicated machine for video editing only. I'm not going to use it to get on the internet or download video games, so maybe this will help.
Thanks again for your reply.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Hey Tunesman

It simply comes down to what editing software you're using -it isn't the computer platform that's to blame. If you use crappy software, you'll get crappy results. I've seen complaints - mostly about Pinnacle software, but I've never seen a complaint about vegas Video.

I edit professionally use PCs and Vegas software, and problems like you describe just don't exist, or I wouldn't make a penny at what I'm doing. In fact, I've edited with Vegas on a lowly P3 800 Mhz system, with 256 megs of RAM and have never had the problems you described. And, I'm talking about editing multiple camera shoots.

I should say, I also own a dual-G4 MAC system, which I run FCP on. My problem is that it takes so much steps to get anything done with FCP, I usually give up and go back to Vegas. I'm curious. What software do you use on your MAC?

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Right now, I've just been experimenting with the video software that came with my mac, which is iMovie. I'm getting ready to install Final Cut Express which I bought when I purchased the mac computer, so I don't know yet what kind of features it has, or how difficult it will be to work with it.
You're probably right as far as using a pc for video editing. I've found that the Movie Maker II, which is on my pc now is not very good for video editing. When I edit a video with it, the video looks washed out, not to mention some frame drop outs every now and then. I have another software that I've been using that's a bit better which is called MGI Videowave 4. If I had just used a pc as a stand alone unit for video editing, I probably would have had better results, but with getting on the internet and downloading all kinds of things along with updating anti-virus software, I believe that this effects any kind of video editing that you do. Since I've been using my mac and experimenting with video editing, I've had no problems with it. The video looks smooth as I mentioned before. I've not been and don't plan on getting on the internet with it, or will download a lot of different softwares. I'm just going to use the mac as a stand alone unit for video editing.
I'm still not sure why my Sony and Compaq don't give me good videos. Maybe it's like you said, it's all in what software I use, plus what I mentioned about using it just for video and nothing else.
Thanks for your reply.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Hard drives can be major culprits to dropped frames. If you are capturing video files to the same drive your OS is on, you may run into problems. The hard drive will be under the stress of trying to keep the OS going as well as capturing large video files. Do you use an analog capture card or firewire card? Have you cleaned up your computer? i.e. defragged, deleted unneeded files, virus check? All of these relate to the performance of your system. And you can have your computer connected to the internet and still edit video. I do it with my laptop and i did it with my old 450 mhz dell which could crank out projects. Most pros won't connect their NLE computer to the internet because if a virus gets into your system, it could wreak havoc on your system causing missed deadlines. As long as you stay ontop of your internet security you'll be fine. But you have already splurged on your MAC so you better enjoy it.

now back to your question....
Why wouldn't I go with a mac? Like lee said, Macs are limited because they are proprietary systems. PC's have open architecture which makes results in more competition and cheaper prices. Macs are overpriced and underpowered.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Thanks for your reply. I've defragged my pc and I stay on top of my virus protection, and I've even used my secondary hard drive in my pc for loading video instead of the main hard drive, and I still have dropped frames. I've pretty much just given up trying to figure out what my pc's problem is with editing video, so I just don't use it for editing video anymore. I've got plenty of other things that I use my pc for, so it's not like I don't use it, I just won't use it for video editing. If I was to try to rely on my pc to make professional videos that say my job relied on, they would be unnacceptable. As I said, I've tried everything and nothing works. As I mentioned before in some previous replies, if I would have used my pc as a stand alone unit just for video editing, I'm sure that it would have worked fine. Sure, pcs have more options as far as softwares for video editing than macs, but if my mac is working okay for what I need, then that's the one I'll use for video.
I kind of like using the mac, because it's different than the pc in some ways and it's kind of refreshing to use something different for a change. I still enjoy my pcs very much, but will use both and have the best of both worlds. Thanks again for your response, and for your helpful hints. They are much appreciated.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Hey Tunesman

It's unfortunate that you chose to evaluate PC video editing based on probably the two worst video editing packages (Movie Maker and Videowave) available for PCs. You should try Vegas or Premiere Pro, both of which are leagues above Final Cut Express. But, in the end, it's not the computer platform or even the editing software, it's the creativity of the videographer/editor that counts. If you can satisfy your artistic desires using a MAC and FC Express, then there was really no point in seeking justification by initiating a "PC vs. MAC" debate, especially one based on the anecdotal assumption that dropped frames are inevitable on a PC. It just sounds silly to the overwhelming majority PC-based editors on this forum who simply don't have that problem, no matter what software they use or how they've configured their PCs.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

I think you're giving people here on this forum the wrong idea of what I was trying to say in my original question. I probably shouldn't have worded it as a question like "pc vs mac", I should have originally asked what are some of the good points of either type of computer. I also wasn't aiming my question at just people who are involved on a professional level with high end video editing, but more toward the whole spectrum of people who are not just professionals, but people who are starting out in this field as well. Not everybody uses Vegas or Premiere Pro. There are a lot of people who have nothing more than the softwares that I have, and probably need some help with what they've got.
And another thing; I'm not evaluating every pc just on the types of software I've got. If you read some of my posts, I said that I agreed that pcs could do the job at video editing just as well as my mac could, but I also said that since my mac was doing the job okay, that I would use it with what it's got for now. I didn't say that all pcs were useless for video editing, as you say I did. All I said was that since my pcs were not doing what I wanted them to do with the software I had, that I would just use the mac. There are a lot of people like me who are just starting out with computers and don't have the advantage of professional level knowledge when it comes to this aspect of computers. I'll say it again: I'm sure pcs are perfectly able to perform at video editing just as well as macintosh computers. I didn't know that Movie Maker II and Videowave were one of the worst softwares for video editing, okay? You're obviously pro pc since you're putting down Final Cut Express so I guess there's no use arguing about that.
I suppose if I bought Vegas or Premiere Pro software that my dropped frames problem would cease, right? If they didn't, then that would be a waste of money. I'll also say this again: if I ever decide in the future to use a pc for video editing, I'll use one as a stand alone machine just for that purpose, that way, I won't have to worry if my getting on the internet or using anti-virus software or any of these things have corrupted my computer so as to cause dropped frames.
You'd better do some research on some of these forums before you say that no one else has experienced dropped frames before you make that statement again. I've read plenty of posts from people who have experienced this problem as well. There are plenty of other forums on the internet where people have and do put up with this problem. I am by far not the only one by a long shot. And again, just so you'll understand me, I am saying that this doesn't mean that I've given up on all pcs, I'm just saying that certain problems exist with pc users, problems that we don't always know how to fix. I'm not saying I like macs better than pcs, just so you'll know that to.
I also didn't mean to sound rude in some of my statements, I just want you to know that I'm not a professional in this field, I'm just looking for pointers and don't always know the answers. God knows that there are plenty of us who don't know all the answers when it comes to computers.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
irish
Member

well sinse I have only used adobe, and FCP.. I can't say much about software. however, my mac moves video a lot better then my PC does.. hands down. My PC has almost tripple to power too.. in every department. The next computer I buy is going to be another Mac.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

There's obviously a lot of pros and cons I'm finding out when it comes to pcs and mac computers. As I said, I love my pcs, but I like my mac too. I haven't had it that long but from what little video editing I've done with it, I've been pleased. I didn't realize that macs move video better than pcs, at least a lot of people would disagree with that statement, but if my mac works good with it, and my pcs haven't been, I'll stick with my mac for video. It's a wonder that macs work better in some areas than pcs at tripple the power. I wonder why they have so much power even though they have less processing power than pcs?
Oh well,...I guess it's just more fuel for debate. Thanks for you comments.

Tunes Man.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

It's never wise to waste time wondering about things that simply aren't true. If you're genuinely interested in discovering the truth about any particular subject, then you have to take into account the source of the information.

I refer you to the October edition of Videomaker Magazine, which featured reviews of Final Cut Pro 4 on a dual 1.25mhz G4 and Vegas 4.0 + DVD tested on a Pentium 4 single processor system (of unidentified clock speed) conducted in their test labs.

Here are some of the comments extracted from the FCP4 on a dual-G4 machine review:

"...We can report that, on this machine, anything beyond a transition required some rendering to out put DV to an external device..."

"...Full quality output, or even previews on this machine fell short of what we've seen on 2-3gHz Wintel machines..."

"...Although we don't have a benchmark here that can span the two platforms, even the fastest MPEG renders on this G4 were slower than the average Wintel Box by a wide margin...".

This doesn't sound like an endorsement of MAC performance capabilities, nor does it seem to indicate that MACs "move video faster".

Using Vegas with my P4 2.6 gHz system, any edit including complex color corrections, picture-in-picture, crossfades, transitions, etc. are delivered smoothly in real-time to an external DV device without rendering!. I edit videos using a Sony Television Set, being fed by the s-video output of a Sony DVCAM tape deck, that's connected to my PC via firewire, and routinely enjoy real-time editing performance. If PCs were slow video machines, this kind of hook-up would be impossible.

Tunesman, just because you characterize your self as not professional, doesn't mean you have to limit yourself to 'consumer-grade' software. Ironically, Final Cut Express costs about the same as Vegas 4.0, yet isn't nearly as capable, and is much harder to learn how to use in the first place.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Want the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the Mac vs PC debate? Fine, here it is.

Neither is better. Neither ever has been or ever will be. Both require a user that UNDERSTANDS the computer and the software in order to do anything functional.

There are people who seem to intuitively understand PCs better AND there are an equal number or editors who seem to intuitively understand the MAC system better.

Both have excellent user interfaces today. Both have amazingly powerful hardware available that provides desktop capabilities UNHEARD of at these price points a mere decade ago.

Lastly, no matter WHO says one system "out-performs" the other today, history has proven time and time again that if you wait a couple of months, something that you DON'T own today, will outperform anything you could have bought yesterday.

The bottom line is that BEFORE you can intelligently decide whether you prefer Steinway or Bosendorfer pianos, you MUST learn to become a competent piano player.

Until you do that and learn what your own STYLE of playing is, you can't even BEGIN to judge whether the action and touch of the insturment will compliment your particular style of playing.

I use Macs because back when I was learning it was one of the very few competent video editing computer systems. Mac systems have grown with my business wonderfully, and I've never had to switch vendors.

Thousands upon thousands of people who came along a bit later and cut their teeth on PC systems can say the same thing.

The REAL key to success isn't the tools, it's learning how to use them well, and YOU CAN DO THAT ON NEARLY ANY FUNCTIONAL VIDEO EDITING SYSTEM.

Who's right?

Who cares?

It's the Golden Age of Personal Video Editing.

Buy something and get to work!

You're wasting time!

Posted 8 years ago #
cfulton
Member

Well said, sir! I was talking with our technical editor the other day and the universal conclusion was that it's no longer about the tools--it's about the techniques. You could do much of the same stuff on an appliance, really (plus, you'd dodge the occasionally vitriolic platform wars.) This is the essence of Videomaker: we're teaching techniques that one could apply to any platform... but there's always someone out there accusing us of being biased against the Mac. Having said that, I use both platforms routinely: I have an old G3-400 running 10.2.8 at home (which is mostly retired, but still edits video from time to time) and the machine I live on is a homebrewed Athlon XP 1900+ running Windows 2000. -Charles Fulton, Associate Editor, Videomaker Magazine

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Isn't it a bit snobbish to assume that no one in this thread has achieved enough of a "competency" level to issue an intelligent opinion about the relative merits of a MAC or a PC for NLE work? Actually, claiming that "...neither is better, neither ever has been or ever will be..." certainly does not establish your credentials, since that statement is incorrect. There was a time when Macs were unquestionably superior to PCs for video editing, but I don't think that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt right now. There will always be technology innovation and advancement -and progress is not guaranteed to be platform-specific. So, sticking religiously to one platform isn't necessarily a "wise" decision.

This forum is interesting and informative because of the different opinions being expressed and debated. It's not a waste of time for me. It used to be fun! There are several threads on this forum right now that can easily be characterized as "foolishness", but, I don't see them being picked on by contributing editors.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

All I'm trying to do is get some information on these machines, not neccessarily create a fence for people to get on one side or the other as far as who's for mac and who's for pc. I'll admit, I'm a novice when it comes to either type of computer, and what I've read makes sense, in that it's how much you know about either machine that will make it work right for you. I've got all kinds of time to learn about these techniques with my mac and all kinds of time to learn about my pcs. If anyone on this forum or this discussion thinks this is a waste of time, then don't get on here. If you want to be helpful and constructive and help some of us who are looking for answers, then we appreciate your helpful advice. This forum I'm assuming, is not just for professionals who know 95 percent more than the rest of us when it comes to computers. There are plenty of us who are still struggling to learn what's going on with computers and video editing and appreciate helpful advice. Those of you who don't want to be bothered by people like us who are still learning I think are rather concieted and show no sensitivity toward helping others. Lets try to work together so that we can all find the answers. Macs are good computers, PCs are good computers, that's it,...end of discussion.

Tunesman.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

You're absolutely right, tunesman. Since you're not yet trying to make a living at this, it's your creativity - and your sense of accomplishment that matters. And, you don't need to be diverted by technical matters. Although I've been able to make money in videography, I started working with digital video simply as another outlet for my creativity. I'm also a musician, a writer, a graphic design artist, - the point is I've been lucky enough to make a living based on my intrinsic creativity. The one thing I learned is that I never limited my choice of tools. I own a stratocaster AND a les paul. I use Illustrator/photoshop AND corel Draw/photopaint. I use Microsoft Word AND Wordperfect.

My point is each tool has its unique atributes that you can take advantage of if you keep an open mind. The one thing you should avoid however, is being led by disinformation. So you were absolutely right to inquire about the two platforms, especially since you were having a problem with one. There's no problem using a Mac for what you want to do, but don't write of PCs. Investigate your problem - and fix it, so you can take advantage of both platforms. I love my les paul and its sweet blues tones, but that doesn't mean I have to stop myself from "Jimmie Hendrixing out" with my strat once in a while.

Unfortunately, when it comes to this issue, it inevitably descends to arrogance and conceit. It reminds me of the Republicans and Democrats right now, where one party has to swear unwavering allegiance to one leader, while the other is looking at myriad choices and scratching their heads. Some find it easier to surrender to a single authority, while others like to jump in the fray. It seems to be a matter of personality. Anyway, Peace. If you need any help troubleshooting your PCs, email me, I'll be glad to help - that's why this forum is here.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

Thanks Lee. I know it's frustrating working with these complex machines. I wish I had more knowledge to be able to apply towards computers, and most of the time, they do what I want them to do. I too am a musician, as a matter of fact, I make my living at it. Computers have been an irreplaceable part of my work when it comes to music as far as downloading my songs onto them and burning them onto cds, not to mention a hundred other things that they help me with in that particular field.
Video editing is does not really have anything to do with my business, it's really just a hobby I've gotten into recently. I've got a lot of money invested in video equipment and recording devices such as dvd recorder decks and I also bought a HDTV. Since I've got all this money invested in this video equipment, I figured that it only makes sense that I should have some polished videos that I can appreciate looking at over the years. That's where my interest if computer video editing came in. I've owned computers now for about four years, but never dabbled in video editing with them until late last year. I didn't realize how involved you could get with it.
You're right as far as my pcs are concerned as far as learning what the problem is and correcting it. I'm sure that pcs can do a great job with video editing from all that I've heard people say on different posts, and someday I'll figure out what's causing my problem, but at least for now, my mac is doing the job for me. I'll use the mac until I am able to find out what the problem is with my pcs and when I do, I'll use both. I'll be posting new questions in the future for continuing help from time to time concerning video editing, so thanks for any help you can give.

Tunesman.

Posted 8 years ago #
nobody
Member

http://geraldcarmack.net

Posted 8 years ago #