Need to clear some things up. 3ccd/cmos, minidv/sd

1. igotthat
   Member

   

   Ok, heres the deal. I think im wanting to ditch my xl2 and go with say a hv30/40 or something like. My xl2 is big and heavy, i do alot of shooting out of car windows etc and just on the move stuff in general. Also it seems these can produce better quality then the xl2 especially when im putting up youtube clips< eventually it all goes onto dvd.So heres my issues and i always get different answers: Fyi as i said i film alot out of car windows, moving cars,racing.etc

   1) I have been told if i want good quality on dvd i MUST use a minidv camera. I have been told using anything else the compression will be to high and it will turn out like crap as my dvds are around 90min long.

   2) I have been told i MUST have a 3ccd camera for best quality.

    

   Now i have seen videos like mine and i know for sure a hv20 and then a sony hdr hc7 and 9 were used and i thought the quality on dvd was great. However as i said these things have been told to me by a few different people one of them being a experienced editor who does high end stuff. I mean iv shot a clip in 720 off my phone and it looked better than some stuff coming from my xl2 (16x manual/servo zoom lens).. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

   Posted 8 months ago #

2. doublehamm
   Member

   

   If you were using an SD camera, mini-DV would probably be the way to go, but you will likely never lose quality if you shoot in HD originally and then down convert to 720x480 for a DVD format. 

   As a side note, if you ever get as far as using a blu-ray player - and you have SD footage on from a Mini-DV transfer, I would output it in HD.  I found this little trick myself.  Mini-DV footage is uncompressed, and the DVD mpeg format is very compressed.  In this case my old Mini-DV videos look much better when played back as compressed into AVCHD rather than DVD mpeg. A LOT less artifacting going on.  Just my 2 cents. 

   As far as 3 chip cameras go - yes they are typically higher quality, but some of the newer cameras out there, so long as there is plenty of light, shoot extremely well and you would never know the difference. 

   Posted 8 months ago #

3. igotthat
   Member

   

   So are your saying a camera such as a hv40 even though its technically NOT full HD would do better shot in its HD and converted down to 720 or would i actually need a FULL HD camera?

   Also a camera storing on SD card instead of minidv would be better also as long as its HD correct?

   Sorry im pretty new to all this and i think asking so many people and getting so many answers was my 1st mistake because im so confused now its ridiculous.

   Posted 8 months ago #

4. EarlC
   Moderator

   

   Actually, depending on the feed received MiniDV video is not uncompressed. A true HD camera, not AVCHD or any of the others might not be, but for all the rest what winds up on MiniDV tape is compressed.

   Posted 8 months ago #

5. doublehamm
   Member

   

   So I may have been wrong on mini-DV being completely uncompressed, but it does run at about 25Mb/s avi bitrate compared to the 6-8Mb/s mpeg once it is compressed for DVD watching.  You will get less artifacting if you edit it as AVCHD and send to blu-ray - but that is a topic for a whole different thread - and mainly have come from my own personal observations and experiences. 

   Are there any true fully uncompressed HD cameras out there?  Completely uncompressed HD video runs at over 10 GB per minute of video.  I cannot even play it back smoothly unless it is on my SSD drive.  Even then I better not have anything else running and my computer is pretty beastly. 

   Posted 8 months ago #

6. composite1
   Moderator

   

   Igo,

   It really depends on what you mean by 'quality'? If you're talking the same level high-end Hollywood DVDs have, forget it 'cause you're not shooting with the same level of gear they use or have the post-facilities. If you mean 'broadcast quality' again, you need to set your sights lower because even though shows like 'Survivorman' were shot on small mini-dv cameras like you mentioned, they eventually got 'uprezzed' when cleaned up in post on high-end NLE setups.

   Now if you mean far better than the 'YouTube Special's', yup you can do that provided you use a camera with good glass (the XL series has excellent glass for clear imagery), a 3CCD chip is a plus but as Double mentioned many of the new CMOS chip cameras do an excellent job and you have enough light on your scenes with proper exposures. That said, in post forget all the 'film-look' tricks like adding grain and junk like that unless it's a storytelling element.

   Next, once you've got your edit locked with all color-correction, transitions and elements finalized, export a digital master in the highest uncompressed resolution you have available (i.e. HD 1020p, 720p or 480i.) Then using the master import it for 'down conversion' for SD DVD MPEG2 into your DVD creation software.

   If you make an MPEG2 in your NLE and then import it into your DVD creation software, odds are it will get compressed further which will introduce more artifacts and lower its overall look. You'll have to tweak the settings in your DVD software to get the look you want. Also view the MPEG2 video on an actual TV to see what the product will look like. Calibrate the TV with colorbars and get it as close to what you see on the computer monitor as possible.

   More than likely you won't be able to get a perfect match, but you'll see instantly where any issues with color or compression are and you can go back and fix it. So, whether you use an oldschool XL or a newer HD rig, if you're wanting to make DVD's you're not going to get 'perfect' imagery right off the bat. You're going to have to get in there and do 'quality control' to get the images to meet a certain standard.

   H.Wolfgang Porter, Composite Media Producer
   Dreaded Enterprises Unlimited, Inc.
   http://www.dreadedenterprises.com

   Posted 8 months ago #

7. doublehamm
   Member

   

   Note that not all NLEs will require recompression of mpeg files.  Vegas does a fine job with this and DVD architect leaves the file completely alone so what you originally compressed is what will play on the DVD, so long as it was compressed correctly in the first place.

   Posted 8 months ago #

8. igotthat
   Member

   

   Thanks everyone, lots of research i need to do.i dont need motion picture quality but like i said want a good quality, some stuff i just shot on my phone real quick in 720 and can watch on youtube in HD looks better than alot of stuff iv shot on the xl2. I just want to get that quality onto dvd and all of my future youtube clips. Now what i do may not be everyones cup of tea so to speak but here are some examples of what i mean. The phone clip looks way better to me...

   This i just shot a quick walkaround vid in 720 from my phone.

   Get the Video Player

    

   This was with the xl2..

   Get the Video Player

   Posted 8 months ago #

9. Charles Schultz
   Adobe Host

   

   Igothat, go with the best quality you can afford. Do not rule out AVCHD codec as it really looks good on a TV and YouTube, I shoot mostly for YouTube and burn to DVD's. Depending on your editing software and DVD burner, you may be pleasantly surprised, especially if it new Adobe products. 

   As far as the sensors go, if you shoot only with controlled lighting you can go either way. But, if you do weddings or where there are people using flash cameras, stay away from the CMOS sensor as you will have a few frames with half the flash down the frame then it goes away; that really distracts some viewer. Also, horizontal movement on vertical subjects is a problem with CMOS sensors as thing appear to lean. 

   Personally, if you can afford it go with the 3CCD sensors and you will never be sorry. They are better in low light situations and do not have all the inherent problems of the CMOS sensors.

   Posted 8 months ago #

10. igotthat
    Member

    

    Charles, the only things i shoot as of now are like the vidoes of mine posted above. 99.9% of everything is outside and i use no lighting. As far as putting it onto dvds i send them into a company to get replicated. I have been told the same about 3ccd but the difference in the 2 clips is killing me. As posted above 1 is shot from my phone in 720 and other the xl2. Personally i think the phone clip looks way better.

    Posted 8 months ago #

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