Make Money With Video

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    1. andrewmoquin
      Member

      The web is going video in a big way now.There's no denying that there is massive demand for video content, and that it will continue to soar. Especially when Google and others figure out how to convert video to text on the fly and rank videos just like regular text pages.It's not as far off as you might think!

      Read more here...

       

      “Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance.”
      “Marriage is a three ring circus: engagement rings , wedding rings and sufferings.”
      Posted 2 years ago #
    2. EarlC
      Moderator

      Making money with video is no big secret. A LOT of what you need to know can be found at E.C. Come, E.C. Go

      Posted 2 years ago #
    3. jimcvideo
      Member

      The problem with web video is that there are precisely 83,958,234 "web video producers" out there, and most of them, never having sold a "real" video in their life are willing to work for peanuts.

      To compete against these folks, you need to do more than just offer a service, you need to demonstrate that you're better than they are, and that you're justified in charging a few grand for a quality production. Even then, I have scary visions that this new wave of video producers might, if not put us pros out of business, at least force us out of some of the markets we've comfortably lived in for years.

      My dad used to be a printer. Ran his own business, and complete with a couple million-dollar Heidelberg presses. You know what drove him out of business? Desktop publishing. In the late 90's when color injet printers were becoming commonplace, people were looking at putting together a 20 page report, and thy realized that for the same price my dad charged they could buy an inkjet printer and do it themselves. Sure, the quality stank in comparison, and they didn't have the years of layout expertise to make them the same as he would, but at the end of the day, loyalty to their printer gave way to saving money. And you can't make payments on a couple million dollar Heidelbergs when your customers ditch you to do it themselves.

      In some ways, I worry that with the mass production of cheap camcorders and YouTube&Friends, the perceived value of video production is taking a hit. Sure, we have better equipment, and we've got experience. But then, the same was true for my dad, who left his dream job of printing to build kitchen cabinets. Camcorders are in 2009 what the color inkjet was in 1999. They're getting better and cheaper, and if we're not careful, we may find ourselves in the custom cabinets business ourselves.

      Okay, that was a little bleak. Trying to be a hair less macabre, I will say that our fate doesn't have to line up to that of the pressmen of the late 20th century. There are still printing companies in business, albeit many less than there used to be. The ones that are still around survived by offering services at competitive rates, and trough lots of perseverance. They also heavily promote services you just can't do well at home, like bindery, carbonless forms, etc... In an analogue to that, I would say that video producers need to look for that edge that average Joe with a handycam can't duplicate readily. For example, I bought a live switch for my business, and it's already paid for itself.

      There are ways to make money in video, but it's not an easy road. We have to be better, stronger, and faster than the competition, and competition includes your client buying a camcorder and doing it himself. We need to work work work, and only that will ensure our continued viability as a trade.

      Posted 2 years ago #
    4. zoobie
      Member

      We haven't even begun to see International videographers on websites that are willing to do whole productions for a pittance. Just like the website coders a few years ago, Internationals will instantly outbid locals and make complete productions for a mere $60US which is very good money in their economy.

      While not spelling the absolute end, I certainly wouldn't be buying any equipment...

      Another world's first! - http://www.BuskerAlley.com - Busker HD on the web!
      In Production - Busker Alley - The Movie!
      Want to make a small fortune in videography? Start with a large fortune!
      Posted 2 years ago #
    5. EarlC
      Moderator

      Video business is "out there" and there will always be people who can't, don't want to, or otherwise prefer capable, if not professional, independent video services providers who have found the magic margin between affordable & profitable, and cheap underpriced loss leader...

      ...and the few who are overpriced either based on the quality of their productions, or their market demographics, or some other basis for perception of value by their client base and market area.

      It has been said that people with high discretionary funds (becoming a rarity in many areas) buy services while middle income people buy things. That is a generality and often the two cross paths - depends on the services desired/needed or the things wanted/affordable.

      The whole truth to the matter of making money in video is marketing. Consistent marketing (not specifically paid advertising) WILL generate business. It will sustain business, and will result in renewable clients and business so long as you deliver as promised. Delivering as promised, on time and providing a resonably priced quality product are also guaranteed ways to sustain business in ANY economic climate. Fail to deliver, or fail to maintain your marketing efforts and work will fade to black while income turns to vapor.

      Posted 2 years ago #
    6. peachydingo
      Member

      Do you all still feel this way? Has video gone the way of photography with the glut of "good enough" far out weighing the real pros? Heck, little Billy down the street can borrow Daddy's HD cam and do a decent (if not professional) video job.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    7. Heck, little Billy down the street can borrow Daddy's HD cam and do a
      decent (if not professional) video job.

       

      You nailed it !  I have for years told people you need to look like you own NBC when shooting a project. People want to pay for a product that Billy can't give them.  Mom and Pop shops who need a local TV spot may be very happy with a cam-corder kid and a $500. spot.  I can shoot a $500 TV or web spot that Billy would never know was a $5000. production and will sell more for Mom and Pop. 

      Posted 1 year ago #
    8. grinner
      Member

       On the other hand, if you create a needless deer in headlights vibe due to over crewing and over-gearing, you simply won't have a product to get paid for.

      Companies know the diference between little Billy and a reputable vendor. If they have a budget, they not only want to spend it, they have to spend it to be approved for the same next quarter or year. None of them care what tools are used to make their product. Compensating for lack of talent with needless equipment will only bring more overhead to those who should be honing skills.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    9. composite1
      Moderator

      To add to Grinner's point,

      You need to know when you need a crew and when you don't. This stuff happened decades ago when kodak put out consumer grade cameras so 'mom and pop could take happy snaps'. Just because M&P could do it didn't put pro photographers out of business. The YouTube yahoo's will not put pro video and film producers out of business either. Just like getting your friend's brother who works on plumbing to work on your pipes instead of a trained licensed plumber is asking for trouble.

      As others have said, it's up to you to show potential clients why it's better to pay a few $k to get something that looks and sounds like what you see on tv and in the movies. Little billy, johnny and Uncle Bob can't possibly get that same kind of look and production values with just a happy cam and enthusiasm. Just because you can play basketball doesn't mean you'd have a prayer on an NBA court! You still have to know what you are doing and how best to get it done. That said, it's still going to cost some money.

      H.Wolfgang Porter, Composite Media Producer
      Dreaded Enterprises Unlimited, Inc.
      http://www.dreadedenterprises.com
      Posted 1 year ago #
    10. grinner
      Member

       ... but a fraction of what it use to, and with faaaar superior quality.

       

      Posted 1 year ago #
    11. Not to divert the post but Grinner, was noticing your new avatar is a little Escher-esk.

      http://www.mcescher.com/Gallery/ital-bmp/LW268.jpg

      Life is not a guided tour nor a destination.
      It is a journey. Take the time to enjoy your family, friends and surroundings.
      Build memories. Share experiences. Travel at sight speed not light speed. (C)
      Posted 1 year ago #
    12. grinner
      Member

       thanks man. Was lookin' in an old hand-held mirror.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    13. composite1
      Moderator

      "... but a fraction of what it use to, and with faaaar superior quality."

      Agreed. But it ain't gonna' be $300 bucks and that's for damn sure!

      Posted 1 year ago #
    14. grinner
      Member

       While we use to have folks standing in line to get cuts, wipes a disolves in our limited linear suites for more than 400 bucks an hour, it's challenging in many markets to get more than 200 an hour for anything the client can dream up. This aint moola out of our pockets. We use to spend millions on those linear suites and can spend 5 figures on a top notch edit suite today. Same with production. ONe job can pay for a more than suitable camera that will last years. This is no reflection on talent but an example of how obtainable the technology is by all. Consumers have always gotten what they pay for. This is why veeeery few companies want the cheapest production. They'd rather have the best they can afford. Thats where you and I come in. We ask em what they have to go toward the budget then explain what we can do for that. The flat bid for a one man band turn-key product is rapidly becoming the norm. This is a great thing. Because we are quick at what we do, it's how we can get our rates back up.

      win/win

      Posted 1 year ago #
    15. composite1
      Moderator

      "We use to spend millions on those linear suites and can spend 5 figures
      on a top notch edit suite today. Same with production."

      Dude,

      I did a still/video aerial shoot of a carrier group once. Not including flight planning, prep time and flight briefing the gig took about two hours. One of the dignitaries that went on the flight asked me about how much it cost to do that and without blinking I said, "$20 million." Now my end didn't cost anywhere near that (I wish!), but when you calculate everything it took to get all those ships and aircraft all working in concert for two hours, plus what it took to get the film crew out there, that's actually a low-ball estimate.

      The point of that is; Ammy's think that all it takes is a camera to make 'videos'. They are dead wrong. When a client pays for a production be it a one or multi-person crew 'all that money' goes to pay for everything that makes it possible for that crew to shoot and finish their project. Like you said, 'one job can pay for a camera'. Year before last, one job paid for my company's complete upgrade to HD. My client still paid only a 'fraction' of what it would have cost from a bigger outfit (though now I'm getting 'lowballed' by $10mil a year outfits.)

      What the client pays for is the pro's expertise and time. You want your production to be 'high quality'? Be prepared to pay for it. You're also right in that with today's gear, in the hands of an expert a quality production shouldn't cost anywhere near what it used to. But you are not getting 'quality' for $300 -$500! That is unless the producer's a friend of yours and he/she cuts you a quid pro quo deal.

      One thing I love but would never let a client see is the feeling of satisfaction when someone comes to me and desperately wants me to 'polish' their $300 turd into a 'quality production'.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    16. digitalhq
      Member

       In my experience, there are still companies/brides out there willing to pay for high quality video productions, but they're getting few and far between.  In this economy, it's all about budget shopping, and simply getting something produced that's "acceptable".  Kind of a "Wal-Mart" syndrome.  Quality doesn't factor into the equation; if somebody out there is willing to shoot a video for a few hundred bucks, then that's what it should cost in their mind.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    17. grinner
      Member

       Composite, we've gotten paid well to polish turds. When the local brewery brings me betas shot in a different market by some local news photog, I know right then they are paying my mortgage that day. It's their decision to increase their budget by trying to save some. I'd be a fool to have a problem with that. When they send me across the nation it's on a flat bid for the whole thing. When they have others hoot it, I make much more by fixing it by the hour and I don't have to sit in any airports.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    18. EarlC
      Moderator

      What is interesting is the string of folks in the business who are really quite good, if not perfect, who are willing to dilute the industry payload with superior production work for scum sucking bottom feeder prices.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    19. grinner
      Member

       Panic can cause some to act in despiration rather than take an offensive approch. Of sound mine, you and I know raising prices will actually aquire more clientele but I tell ya, go weeks without a gig and a brother can start to think wacky things like "well, maybe if I do it for half price I'll get twice the work." That comes from retail and lower prices does move more product there. When buying expertise, man advertising as the cheapest is the biggest handicap I can think of.

       

      Posted 1 year ago #
    20. Don
      Member

      50% a loaf of bread is more filling than 100% of no loaf of bread.

       

      having said that, the trouble is beyond a certain price point, there has got to be a point where inability to keep current with equipment and software will eventually push some of these guys under.....

      If consumers want the service and the quality, they'll maybe have to get burned a time or two with the bottom feeders before they'll pay for somebody that plans to be in business for more than a couple years.

      Important when you wake up one day and realize you need a replacement copy of your wedding/production, and the guy you hired cheap is long gone.... and the guy you should have hired is still there.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    21. EarlC
      Moderator

      My "point" was not that quality is difficult to find in cheap production, or that people will more often than not get "burned" going with blue light specials, but that there ARE folks in this industry who actually do EXCELLENT production work for unbelievably low prices, doing themselves and the industry a disservice.

      It's not like the guy offering and doing a re-roofing job for 25-cents-on-a-dollar, it's the one who does MORE than what is normal for a normal rate - offering copper, or some other exotic shingle and a 20-year warranty for a loss. That's the kind of difference to which I referred.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    22. Don
      Member

      I understood that Earl, and I do agree. I believe they are cheating thier clients long term. By not having a sustainable marketing plan (which would include paying themselves a fair wage), and making enough profit to upgrade, retrain and promote thier business, long term, clients needing copies of product in the future are going to be let down.

      Let's face it, it will require enough consumers getting burned, to demand the government to regulate our industry to get checks put in to protect the consumer from fraudsters that will shift the industry to remove bottom feeders and therefore protect people that are talented from having to work for bottom feeder pricing...

      � 

      Those who know me since I arrived on the forum, know that I was a Wedding Photographer that foresaw the convergence of video and still cameras and bought a couple video cameras to up the value of our wedding services. By blending the two we saved our clients money. But the video was good solid work.

      But I already knew lighting and composition... as well as the Wedding industry. it wasn't a giant leap to learn basic video editing and sound.

      Now I find myself being swamped with prospective clients that think they should get whole wedding packages for $500.00 and they can't get past the $500.00 mindset long enough to look at the work and realize, What we do is worth what we charge. So now we're offering a service where we provide the equipment and tech support to help budget shoppers to "Do It Yourself" for $500.00 we get them video and d-slr cameras with instructions, and a dj sound system to play thier music, and our tech sets up the equipment, transfers photos and videos to disc for them and assists them with playing thier own music, as well as projecting thier images at thier events.

      That means a Wedding couple can skip the photographer, skip the videographer, skip the dj, by getting a friend or two to man the cameras and dj booth, and our guy makes sure everything is hooked up and working. At the end of the day, they got photos, video and music for thier event for a fraction of the price of hiring even the bottom feeders.

      Then We're still free to offer our regular Wedding service at our regular pricing to those that aren't interested in compromising.

      In other words the consumer wins Because I can service BOTH the high end client and do to the bottom feeders what they're doing to us, driving down the percieved value of thier product.

      Instead of me hearing clients saying "Why should I pay xxx amount of dollars for you when I can get this guy for $500.00? I can get that $500.00 from them, and it's the bottom feeders who get to hear clients saying "Why should I pay you $500.00, and joe photo guy $500.00 and Joe Dj $500.00, when I can rent the gear and have my cousin take the photos, my brother in-law do the video, and play my own music off my ipod on a killer dj sound system?" for $500.00?

      Posted 1 year ago #
    23. Don
      Member

      if the consumers are saying they want a $500.00 package, then you must come up with a $500.00 package, or someone else will. and $500.00 is better than nothing.

      That is why you're seeing copper roofing at regular pricing.

      It is the Mid-range priced guys that are on the endangered species list.....

      Posted 1 year ago #
    24. grinner
      Member

       I disagree with that, while I do understand the mentality... it is a panic mentality.

      Working for 500 bucks pulls you from being avilable to work for 5,000. Yes, if you are sitting doing nothing, 500 bucks is better than nothing. The key is to not sit doing nothing. Pick up the phone and stir up the gigs that acrually pay the bills. Take the time to enhance the ole reel so your marketability is oncreased. Spreading the word that you can be haggled to nada is not good business.

       

      Posted 1 year ago #
    25. Don
      Member

      Training a tech to set up and take down my older equipment, doesn't interfere with me doing a wedding at my regular pricing at all. It just takes a sale away from a bottom feeding competitor.

      It opens up a market for me that won't buy my regular product at my regular pricing, anyways.

      It's a no lose proposition for keeping my older gear from collecting dust.

      I don't even market it under my established company name, it is a seperate corporation.

      when the market picks up, and some of these fly by night guys have put themselves out of business, we'll still be standing.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    26. EarlC
      Moderator

      Don, I am NOT seeking an argument here, nor am I in any way attacking your service/prices. However, considering the hours involved and the costs of equipment and workers at any rate, I'm having a LOT of trouble wrapping my head around provision of equipment, technical support and ANY end-product derived - even if it is a DIY setup.

      $500 seems like a tough bottom line to meet the actual expenses and time involved/invested in providing this DIY business model. What COULD you possibly be clearing after expenses with a videographer/photographer/DJ package at $500?

      When I have to rent a second or third projector and screen sometimes due to multiple bookings, it costs me $200 to $250 just to do that. I haven't priced rentals for quality DJ rigs, and/or obtaining DSLRs for photos, but in Southern California, just having a general idea of what it likely costs, I'm looking at $500 in rental fees alone.

      I cannot wrap my head around what you're doing at $500, and professionally, and doing yourself any good. Seems like you are doing copper roofing at below-par prices. Please share with me, if you're willing, your bottom line after expenses on a gig like this. How many of them have you done, signed up? How long have you been providing this triple service DIY package?

      Posted 1 year ago #
    27. Don
      Member

      This is our first year. Most sales works out to $600.00 (extended time)

      We're taking average of one per weekend. (Usually don't attend the full wedding, just the reception).

      They set up and man the booth and take it down. The equipment is all gear that has already paid for itself and has been replaced with upgraded equipment. 

      Everything from the dslrs and video cameras have already been paid in full, also the projector. the sound system is an older Bose system (sounds awesome) we bought outright and upgraded with wifi connectivity, a laptop, and touchscreen remote.

      Clients plug thier own ipods in and mix and dj thier own music, we just show them how to use the equipment.

      we provide a simple video tutorial for when they book,  to train them to set up the cameras and music playlists...

      as photos get brought to the booth they are dumped to the laptop and appear on the projector.

      after the first dance/cake/flowers etc the raw video goes to a dvdburner unedited. same with the photos.

      We keep copies of the raw footage and photos of the cameras for sixty days and if they want editing/photoshop work they can get that separately, we charge extra for editing and photoshopping.

      We only have to clear paying the tech (if we're busy doing a wedding for example) insurance, gas...

      We're putting the service out there to meet a demand that otherwise is going to competitors.

      This product is for people on a budget.

      People that want artistic creative skillfully done productions, will still take our regular business offerings. Some people want quality and service, not DYI.

      like the guys this service is meant to compete against, this service requires one person, one full day and is in the same price range, the set up is designed to prevent bottom feeders from pulling mid range clients away from our regular wedding service.... it is the mid range wedding client that can afford us, but might be tempted(by ridiculously low prices) to scrimp  we don't want to see our competitors profiting off of (or worse, ripping these people off).

      .

      Posted 1 year ago #
    28. Don
      Member

      remember some guys out there offering a $400-500 dollar wedding are hoping to "Make a name" for themselves and charge more later. others are the "I got a $500.00 camera and it can take nice photos so I'm now a pro" scam artists looking to make a fast buck.

      I don't see anything wrong with "nipping them in the bud", so to speak, any more than they see cutting my throat and slashing the perceived value of Traditional Wedding Services as being wrong.

      Since there is a market (no point crying over spilled milk) for $500.00 weddings, I want a piece of it.

       

      It takes a lot less skill to collect memory cards and burn discs and set up speakers than it does to do what I do, so I pay a fair wage for that, and if it flies, I'll expand it. 

      I don't believe it will hurt high end Wedding imaging services for us, anywhere nearly as bad as it would hurt the bottom feeders.

      Posted 1 year ago #
    29. Derek Sine
      Member

      Great topic!

      Derek Sine
      Trails Ventures, LLC.
      Posted 1 year ago #
    30. Don
      Member

      Nobody that looks at Earls or Grinners or even my own High quality work is gonna buy this over a proper Wedding package... unless of course they can't afford it.... and if they can't afford it, they are either gonna wind up helping next years competitor to take a chunk of my business or they're likely to get burned and wind with pictures/video they could've shot themselves or worse, no pictures/video... and out $500.00.

      I'm supplying the equipment. I'm supplying some how-to advice. And a body to set things up and take things down, and supervise the equipment to make sure it's used properly. I'm making life a little harder for these other guys in the process. It is a small market here, with a lot of bottom feeder popping up over the last few years. Who in turn are probably the result of the economy tanking and people feeling pressured to save money, especially when they are setting off on a new life and future. Also the influx of cheap powerful cameras and computers.

       

      Adapt or die.

      Posted 1 year ago #

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