How can they do that? Copyright music!!! « Videomaker Community Forums

push-play
Member

Hey I was wondering... I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it's best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

Posted 6 years ago #
SteveMann
Member

push-play Wrote:
Hey I was wondering... I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it's best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

Be careful with copyright matieral. Its always a risk and being caught could be a rather unpleasant experience.

These days its just plain silly to do that. They are lots of options.

1. Use royalty free music (forget the days of cheese, its rather good now!)

2. Use sofware to create your own. Take your pic, Logic, Reason, Fuirty Loops, Soundtrack, Garageband - all very good.

3. Use a composer - they may composer free for you to begin with, or maybe they have something suitable, maybe they will scratch your back if your help them out

There are so many options open to you. Just look around. Try searching for royalty free music or production music. Many libraries such as ours http://www.beatsuite.com do offer some free music downloads. Also our prices are rather reasonable, also 100% legal music.

Quality does not always cost an arm and a leg. Hope this helps.
Beatsuite.com - Recording Studio Newcastle - Royalty Free Music

Posted 6 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Beatsuite - Why don't you guys add a category for "Wedding Music" and gather some popular selections for it? Any loopable stuff?

As for the original post - its OK to use copyrighted music that a client requests, in the video for the client's use. You cross the line when you use that for a demo, yet many resources advise brides-to-be to demand an actual wedding video instead of just a highlights demo (good advice!) - so what's a guy to do?

Posted 6 years ago #
SteveMann
Member

compusolver Wrote:
... its OK to use copyrighted music that a client requests, in the video for the client's use.

It's not that black and white. While some may argue "Fair Use" by the client, it's a gray issue that to the best of my knowledge has never been tested in court. You can rationalize it in many forms, but adding unlicensed media to a wedding video is still a violation of copyright laws.

Basically, if you are putting popular music on a wedding video that will be seen by ten people, it's not likely to appear on the record label's radar. (Disney seems to have a much more sensitive radar). If you are foolish enough to put it on your web site, you are inviting a letter from the label's lawyers.

Steve Mann

Posted 6 years ago #
Jonathan Decker
Member

There are some funky places out there that do a slightly different version of the popular song in order to avoid the legality, and sell them in packages or by song as royalty free. There is a fine line in this area, but there is some grand music selections out there that sound so close to the original that nobody but the legal offices can tell the difference.

Not a good example, I know, but this is the same variation on music law that allowed Weird Al to do what he did legally.

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

I think we may launch a wedding music section in the future. Any other suggestions as to what music video editors may require?

Posted 6 years ago #
Jonathan Decker
Member

I haven't checked your site yet, but the one style of music the no royalty free site has yet done up-to-par for me is heavy industrial rock with non-synthed guitars and well mixed beats. The background music for the game Quake 2 is about the style I'm referring to. It seems all the royalty free places have is techno-rock or classic rock. Nobody does the hardcore stuff or punk beats. If you had some good stuff in these areas, there's a huge market for it in the x-games indy video crowd. I know I'd be much more willing to mass produce skate videos if I knew I wasn't going to get prosecuted for the music use.

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

An excellent point, and I also agree with that.

We are looking for skate rock/thrash and all kinds of good quality rock. Any ideas to source bands/musicians Im all ears!

Will hopefully implement this over the next 2 months or so. As always I will keep you all posted

Thanks for the feedback - its always welcome

Posted 6 years ago #
DVine
Member

You are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.

Then you need to purchase the rights to it, thats why anime music videos are played so much on the internet.

My demo reel has copyrighted music on it; just means i can't hold a big meeti ng and say; look at me!

Posted 6 years ago #
SteveMann
Member

DVine Wrote:
You are allowed to use copyrighted music on your demo reels as long as it is not televised or sold.

Ummm - Nope!

I can't think of a single exception in the copyright law that would cover this. (I am not a lawyer, but I am very sensitive about copyright issues and I am well-read on the subject and can point you to cites if necessary).

As soon as someone other than you or your immediate family watch the demo, you are violating copyright. Copyright has nothing to do with broadcast or being sold, and profit or lack of it has absolutely no bearing on whether copyright has been violated or not.

As far as I know, Disney is the only media owner ruthlessly enforcing their copyrighted material used this way. (Just put your demo reel online with Disney music on it, and you'll hear from their copyright cops fairly quickly).

The fact that almost everyone does it doesn't make it legal. It's just not at a level of occurance that gets on the copyright owner's radar. Yet.

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

I think as this topic is growing it only goes to show that their is much disinformation regarding intellectual copyright laws, both US and UK.

Whichever way you look at at or view it does not change the law. Anything which is copyrighted may not be used unless permission has been granted. It is an illegal offense, for a company it is very serious to ignore this since the penalties can be huge.

Again, their are many solutions to this problem. We live in a world full of music composers, producers, bands, artists. There are many royalty free music libraries and production companies creating and selling music for this exact reason, to avoid the pitfalls of copyright infringement and also to supply high quality music for professionals.

The best thing is, it is even created to fit the mood of your production, whethers thats happy, sad, uplifting, reliable, trustworthy, whatever.

I say again and I believe it, be creative, you should be original in production and not just latch onto commercial music, find something new and fresh and create your own style. If you have to use something that is well known, find a similar theme or have a sound alike composed.

If anybody is stuck I would be happy to supply them with an alternative although I do understand that we cannot cover every style of music.

Try me.

Posted 6 years ago #
TheDVshow
Member

At least in my experience "fair use" doesn't have a solid definition. My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it's for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don't use the ENTIRE work.

For example using 5-10 seconds of a copyrighted music piece in a demo reel when applying for employment should not get you into legal hot water.

Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.

Fair use also applies for the news:

The Rolling Stones were in Boston recently- local TV and radio news is able to use small segments of the concert in their reports regardless of the copyrights. If they televised or broadcast the ENTIRE concert they step into infringement.

Posted 6 years ago #
SteveMann
Member

TheDVshow Wrote:
... My understanding is that you CAN use copyrighted material as long as it's for NON COMMERCIAL USE and you don't use the ENTIRE work.

...Using the ENTIRE song in a demo reel FOR SALE would land you in court.

Fair use also applies for the news:

The only thing you have right in your post is example of fair-use as it applies to news broadcasts.

Profit or lack of profit has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with copyright violation. (Profits do figure into damage awards, however).

Any unauthorized use of copyrighted work, even a small part of the work, is a violation. Fair use is deliberately vague to avoid codifying a definition of educational or news. What is or is not fair use is up to the judge.

Steve Mann

Posted 6 years ago #
TheDVshow
Member

This is such an interesting topic I decided to invite an intellectual property attorney on the show.

Listen in on August 29th's podcast for some answers!

Posted 6 years ago #
Jonathan Decker
Member

Just a question... but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

Will do

Posted 6 years ago #
svhs
Member

Jonathan Decker Wrote:
Just a question... but do dance clubs, bars, DJays, or the YMCA have to pay liscencing fees to play songs in their respective locations for parties and such?

No, I guess they fit in the "educational purposes" category... X-D

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

In the UK these all have to have PRS license to be able to play music to the public. Public Performance License (PPL).

See http://www.prs.co.uk for more info

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

Its usually the venue that has to pay the license, this includes gyms, leisure clubs, bars, restaurants etc.

Posted 6 years ago #
matt01992k5
Member

are royalties expensive?

couldnt you just write a letter to the person/group and ask? throw up some free promotion and advertising in your work or set up some kind of similar deal?

Posted 6 years ago #
svhs
Member

ha ha! I wish it worked that way. Only no-name artists allow you to use their work (which usually sucks bigtime) just for including their name in the credits...

Posted 6 years ago #
matt01992k5
Member

well how much do you usually have to pay to get the licenses?

Posted 6 years ago #
svhs
Member

Personally, I'm an ass.
Since this is not my full-time job, I prefer to work with amateur artists (of which I highly recommend William Cushman, Justin Durban and Peter John Ross) for free, or sometimes even "forget" about royalties (don't tell anyone, though ;-) ).
I don't advise you to do the same.

Posted 6 years ago #
thebeatsuite
Member

To help understand royalties in music and royalty free music I will post an article that should help to keep things clear.

Watch this spot

Posted 6 years ago #
matt01992k5
Member

waiting...

Posted 6 years ago #
TheDVshow
Member

Well, August 29th's podcast, as promised, contains info on copyrights...listen in for the "10 biggest myths concerning the law and video production" with business and intellectual property attorney Brian LeClair:

http://www.thedvshow.com/2005/08/dv-show-podcast-for-august-29-2005.html

Posted 6 years ago #
Jonathan Decker
Member

Matt,
It usually varies depending on source, and intent of use. It's best to hire an attorney to wade through the legal documents. All of the rights stuff is set up with the record company not the performer. So even if brittany says yes to you, you've gotta get her bosses permission. X-D

Posted 6 years ago #
zax
Member

SteveMann Wrote:
push-play Wrote:
Hey I was wondering... I visited some different sites and I noticed that on their demo reels they use copyrighted music? I know it's best to use your own music but I was wondering how some sites are able to advertise copyrighted music on their demo reels?

In most cases (almost all), the music is unlicensed and in violation of copyright.

Thats what I think^^

Posted 6 years ago #
Jonathan Decker
Member

So, turn them in to the cops.

j/k

Posted 6 years ago #