Great summation of Vegas + DVD, but..

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  1. nobody
    Member

    Let me commend D. Eric Franks on his excellent, accurate and fair summation of Vegas + DVD in the October issue. His documentation of Vegas functions and features was particularly informative, especially relative to his review of Final Cut Pro 4 in the same issue.

    However, I wondered why he chose to continue fostering the supposed uncertainty about Vegas' future due to the Sony takeover?

    Sony has stated in no uncertain terms "...that users of products such as Sound Forge and Vegas can feel confident about continued development of their applications..."

    "...The commitment to these products and the professional market is absolutely there, as well as the commitment to the guys who created it. It's a great marriage of two innovative companies both known for cutting edge techologies and design..."

    Sonic Foundry's biggest weakness was their lack of effective marketing (unlike Adobe or Apple). This hindered the market growth of Vegas (which I believe is the most consistently innovative software in the history of computer-based NLE). As it is, Vegas managed to capture impressive market share, as this recent survey indicates:

    The Most popular Professional NLEs:

  2. NewTek Toaster: 39.67%

  3. Adobe Premiere: 16.74%

  4. Vegas: 13.44%

  5. Final Cut Pro: 10.07%

  6. Pinnacle: 5.41%

  7. Avid: 4.36%

  8. Media 100: 3.86%

  9. Ulead Media Studio Pro: 2.65%

  10. Other: 2.52%

  11. DPS Velocity: 0.82%

  12. Quantel: 0.26%

  13. Sony Xpri: 0.19%

  14. The 'marriage' with Sony should provide the marketing power SF lacked. This is a good thing. Fostering fears about its future could dissuade users from taking the plunge. They'd be missing out on a great product!

Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    What value are you placing on a magazine review as to the "future" of your editing software decisions? They offer an opinion about the product, only an opinion, they don't control you.

    I can edit just as effectivly using Premiere 4, as I can with Premiere Pro (7). I can also type a letter using notepad or the latest version of Word. The basic difference are the additional "toys" that are added in order to keep up, and create the newest versions.

    It has been long known that 98% + of the transitions in editing are straight cuts, the long list of transitions that are included in editing software look impressive as a list, but are quite terrifying to actually look at as a cut.

    If Vegas is never upgraded in the future, or Premiere etc, what exactly is it that you won't be able to do that makes you concerned?

    I have been in this industry quite long enough to know you'll all be using the new latest and greatest, from whoever makes it as soon as it appears, forgetting all about the last latest and greatest.

    You use whatever works for you, but any NLE can do a straight cut, the rest is fluff, eventually people wanting to edit will [hopefully] realize it.

    You read a review, with the appropriate questions about its future since it has been purchased by Sony, but take a look at Pinnacle, they buy virtually all their products exactly as Sony has done here, and the sun still manages to keep rising.

    Videomaker stated a "concern" as to the future of Vegas + DVD, you'll live to edit another day
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Dear Ken

    What value are you placing on a magazine review as to the "future" of your editing software decisions? They offer an opinion about the product, only an opinion, they don't control you.

    It's nothing to do with me personally. I've used Vegas since it first came out - and will continue to do so. The article's relevance has to do with those video editors who want to go pro and are either deciding to upgrade or planning to purchase a new set-up from scratch. These decisions could involve a significant investment on their part. The first decision would be the platform. Should it be Apple or Windows? The comparison between FCP 4 and Vegas could help them with that crucial decision.

    I can edit just as effectivly using Premiere 4, as I can with Premiere Pro (7). I can also type a letter using notepad or the latest version of Word. The basic difference are the additional "toys" that are added in order to keep up, and create the newest versions.

    If you can exhibit the same effectiveness with Notepad as you could with Word, or Premiere 4 as with Premiere 7, then frankly you can't be very effective. Notepad's data handling capacity compared to Word is analogous to a teacup vs. a lake. However, if your word processing is limited to a few paragraphs, you might not notice the difference. Similarly if your editing is limited to one video track and one audio track, and you have the time to sit around rendering every little editing change to check it, then I suppose you wouldn't be able to detect the difference between Premiere versions 4 and versions 7, or Vegas 4.

    It has been long known that 98% + of the transitions in editing are straight cuts, the long list of transitions that are included in editing software look impressive as a list, but are quite terrifying to actually look at as a cut.

    This is a rather snobbish opinion of video editing. Why are you assuming that editors that avail themselves of the latest software simply do so to use transitions and fluff? I think that your characterization more aptly applies to novice or hobby editors, using the $99 dollar variety of editing software available free with their new camcorders. That type of editor includes 'special effects' to disguise their weak data handling capacity.

    I use Vegas professionally, which as you point out rarely requires transitions, etc. However my job requires me to edit multiple camera shoots, involving sometimes 10 or more separate video tracks and 24 or more audio tracks. I primarily use cuts, cross-fades, compositing and chroma-keying, which Vegas allows me to view in real-time without rendering. I also avail myself of the 5.1 Dolby Surround mixing, since a large portion of my final output is destined for DVD. This level of editing power, which is repeated to some extent in Premiere Pro, could never be accomplished with Premiere 4, no matter how you rate yourself as an editor.

    If Vegas is never upgraded in the future, or Premiere etc, what exactly is it that you won't be able to do that makes you concerned?

    As digital video technology grows, the software makers will respond accordingly and I'll respond in kind to keep myself current.

    I have been in this industry quite long enough to know you'll all be using the new latest and greatest, from whoever makes it as soon as it appears, forgetting all about the last latest and greatest.

    I used to use a hi-8 digital camcorder, but I upgraded to a 3-chip mini-DV. What a difference. I've had my Sony VX2000 for three years now. But, if a superior camera comes out in a price range I can afford, I'll definitely take the plunge. I trust Videomaker magazine will keep me informed.

    You use whatever works for you, but any NLE can do a straight cut, the rest is fluff, eventually people wanting to edit will [hopefully] realize it.

    Maybe, you ought to consider broadening your horizons to keep up with the modern world. Give MS Word a chance, it may just make your life a little easier. People used handsaws for centuries, I hope you don't resent the fact that I took the plunge and bought a circular saw. Going through those 2X4's are just not the same ;-)
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    NewTek Toaster: 39.67%

    i've never heard of that program in my life and it's the #1 choice in you're poll. Anyone wanna fill me in on this program?
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Toaster is a hardware/software combination. It is widely believed that they "stacked" the poll.

    One thing never mentioned in ANY of the reviews I've read is Scripting. This one feature alone blows all of the other NLE's out of the water. The ability to automate tasks simply makes the program that much easier to use. Just look at Excalibur, Tsunami, and the other variety of scripts availble. Need multi-cam editing? $50 for Excalibur can easily handle over 20 cameras. Similar solutions in Premiere are $300 for 2 cameras and $600 for 4 cameras. Plus, scripts work directly from the timeline - no external program required.
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Brett- http://www.newtek.com/products/vt/info/index.html For more info! I've used an original Video Toaster from the early 90's. It was the machine that first brought computers into the mix for editing video. It's not some thing you just buy and install it on your computer. You need to get the hardware to go with it. It's obviously a professional system, just look at the requiremnets: http://www.newtek.com/products/vt/info/sys-req.html

    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    I just listed the poll as it as I saw it. NewTek Toaster is a $3000.00 Hardware/Software Windows-based Package that seems to target the broadcast TV market. I tend to agree with Edward that they must have somehow stacked this particular poll. I've never met anyone who uses it. Although, it is quite impressive. You can read a review of the NewTek Toaster if you cut n Paste the following URL:

    http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/2002/01_jan/reviews/cw_toaster2_review.htm

    I also agree with Edward that the Videomaker review should have included a mention of Vegas' scripting tools.
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Lee, you ought to consider broadening your horizons to keep up with the modern world, the Toaster has been around since the Amiga days, and runs circles around the competition. I've been using the Toaster since it first appeared, and am now on the Toaster 2, brilliant stuff.

    Since you say "my job requires me to edit multiple camera shoots, involving sometimes 10 or more separate video tracks and 24 or more audio tracks. I primarily use cuts, cross-fades, compositing and chroma-keying, which Vegas allows me to view in real-time without rendering...", it's interesting you say you've never heard of it, since it's made for exactly what you say you do, hmmmm, broaden your horizons Lee...look at the Toaster, been around for years, might make your job easier (you know, that circular saw thing).

    As far as stacking the poll, first try to understand what a Newtek Video Toaster is, and does, then realize that in the professional video world, there are many programs you've probably never heard of. It's clear you love Vegas, but broaden up those horizons, and try to loosen up, you're taking things much too personally here.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Dear Ken

    If you read very carefully, you'll see that I actually said, I never met anyone that uses it. Maybe I should have said presently. I've been aware of the toaster since the Amiga days. The demise of the original toaster and the Amiga computer (in the US anyway) was a great loss, which I blame on Commodore's incompetency as a company. I've owned Commodore 16, 64, 128 and Amiga computers. You'll also see that I posted a link to a review of Toaster V2. Where I said it seems like an incredible system.

    As for broadening my horizons, the fact is, Vegas, FCP, Premiere are software-only systems, which is an entire different class of NLE, both cost-wise and function wise. Another fact is that Vegas + DVD is just as capable as the NewTek Toaster for non-real time editing and also the Toaster can't come close to Vegas for audio editing. Since my primary job is editing music videos, which doesn't require live switching capability, it would be unnecessary for me to dump $3000.00 on it. However, I will admit, I'd like to try the system. Hey, do you want to sell V2 so you can upgrade to V3?

    BTW I apologize if you detected any hostility or 'uptightness' in my response. It wasn't there. I usually try to mirror the mood of a poster when I reply, which in your case was a little condesending.
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • PHM
    Member

    Just a comment that all hasn't been lost - at least we still have some participants willing to post.

    I certainly was also surprised at the poll results, but considering that New Tek Toaster is a higher-end commercial system, that's not a product that would normally be talked about on this forum.

    But "scripting" was mentioned. Don't know the term. Anyone care to explain? Going to a Vdmkr's seminar tomorrow, maybe I'll see someone else there?

    Phil
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Scripting is a means of automating tasks in the program. Vegas allows writing programs in JScript to simplify the editing process. Here are a couple of scripts that will give you an idea of what can be done via scripting:

    http://www.jetdv.com/tsunami

    http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    Hi Phil

    Scripts are special 'programs' that customize the way an application like Vegas operates. Scripts are useful to automate tasks, especially repetitive ones. A very basic example of script usage might be if you wanted to render a video nine different times using different settings each time, you could write a script to automate this task, so you wouldn't have to do this tedious task manually.

    To create a script, you'd have to be familiar with the use of programming languages like visual basic or c ++. This is way over the head of the average video editor. Fortunately, scripts written by others are available so you don't have to try creating them yourself.
    Posted 8 years ago #
  • nobody
    Member

    You can definetally tell who all of the Vegas users are!! LOL

    Scriping def. makes life easier...
    Posted 8 years ago #

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