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FCP vs Premiere

JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

I'm just starting off with my video career, As a professional photographer (use to Adobe Photoshop), I'm now looking into finding the best Video editing software. I read a few forums regarding this issue of FCP vs Premiere (one of them will be my choice) and it sounds it's more a PC vs Mac issue.What I could figure was that both FCP & Premiere are great, with the FCP exception working great on Mac (as it's ONLY for Mac).

I work on PC currently but is due for a major upgrade soon, my decision has been made it will be a Mac this time around, as all my friends tell my I could have just as well bought a Mac every time I build up my PC, because my PC's I've build up are so huge and expensive, and I use it only and ONLY for editing (not even e-mail & internet, for that I still have a separate PC) you might as well use Mac. So Im going that route soon by buying the latest, biggest iMac.My question is I need to make a decision on an editing software package, FCP or Premiere. As Ive hear great things from both, and also Premiere is NOW ready for Mac, I've not found anything comparing FCP & Premiere on the same platform (Mac) also you hear of big companys using FCP on Mac AND/OR Avit on PC, so where is Premiere?

The thing is I need to buy the software and also get training on it, so I would like to make the right choice from the start and not waste any money as we are talking big bucks.

Thanks in advance for everyones help coming my way.

Joe Louw


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

With a Mac as your primary computer for editing, you can still go on the internet, even though you stated you don't do that with your PC. But you could if you wanted too. You won't get viruses cause no one makes viruses for Macs.

But to answer your question, FCP and Premiere are very similar. It kind of comes down topreference, and if you don't have one then I'd suggest FCP because that's what I've been using for years and have had no problems with.

That doesn't really answer your question about the differences, but that's because they're very similar to begin with.


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

Oh yea, and to answer your question about where's premiere in the industry...

Avid and FCP are the major editing programs in the industry, at least from what I see. Premiere is very popular among those who don't use those 2 programs. But if you work for a major company, there's a good chance they are using Avid or FCP. And FCP is becoming more and more popular due to it's price and ease of use.


Dallas's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/29/2008 - 5:59pm

Premiere and FCP wheredesignedby the exact same people, so hey are going to be verysimilar. Wile I personaly have gone with FCP, you may want to look at theperipheralsof thepackagesyou are considering (ie. the bundledsoftwarethat comes with) and see which best meats your needs.

P.S. Go with FC!


ralck's picture
Last seen: 8 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/26/2006 - 11:19am

I don't know if FCP has a trial, but I believe Adobe gives a trial of their software, so you can always download that to see if you like it before buying. The best thing would be to try both programs before buying. If there's no trial of FCP maybe a Mac store might let you play around with it in-store for a while to test it out?



jerronsmith's picture
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 06/04/2008 - 1:24am
Plus Member Moderator

AVID is industry standard (television and film) for high end production. Every major studio, network, and production company is probably using it right now to cut something. Final Cut Pro has been growing in popularity among the indy film set, the smaller production companies and mid-range to low end cable. I was working on After Effects with a couple of people today from ABC Family who were telling me they cut everything on FCP. Premiere Pro seems to be popular with users of other Adobe software and seems to me to be growing in popularity among independent producers and in the government/industrial sector. I always suggest to my students that they learn two editing programs to consider themselves employable. If you want to work at the high or mid range of productions learn AVID and FCP. If you have no intention working in that arena, then you have much greater choice.

If it is a choice between FCP and Premiere Pro on the Mac operating system the choice might be decided not by the editing applications themselves but instead by the contents of the software bundled with it. For several years now software manufacturers have been moving away from selling individual programs and towards selling software bundles.

Final Cut Studio:

Final Cut Pro 6: for video and film editing
Motion 3: for graphics and animation in 3D
Soundtrack Pro 2: for professional audio post-production
Color: for professional color grading and finishing
Compressor 3 and DVD Studio Pro 4: for digital delivery virtually anywhere a disc, the web, Apple TV, iPod, or cell phone

Adobe Production Premium:
After Effects CS3 Professional (Motion graphics and Compositing)
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3
Photoshop CS3 Extended (Pixel based image creation and editing)
Flash CS3 Professional (Web content delivery)
Illustrator CS3 (Vector graphic creation)
Soundbooth CS3 (Audio sweetening & repair)
Encore DVD CS3 (DVD and Flash authoring)
Adobe Bridge CS3 (File browsing and preview)
Adobe Device Central CS3 (Specs for mobile content development)
Acrobat Connect (web conferencing)
Dynamic Link (allows Encore and Premiere to import unrendered AE projects)

As you can see from the list both bundles are intended to be full featured solutions that include editing, motion graphics, sound sweetening and content delivery. At $1300 the retail price of FCStudio is about $500 less than Production Studio, but the difference is mostly due to the fact that Production Premium contains more programs and more of them are industry standards.

As standalone editing applications go FCP and PP are pretty similar to each other. So the question becomes which bundle offers you the tools and flexibility to do the other work you may need to do in the course of your projects?

Jerron

Jerron Smith Editor-Animator-Educator blog: www.thepixelsmith.blogspot.com


chrisColorado's picture
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 04/03/2008 - 10:48pm

I'd say, IF YOU KNOW PHOTOSHOP, then GET PREMIERE. They're both Adobe and if you know one adobe, it won't be too hard to learn another. Many graphics/print shops/motion graphics places that could give you a job are starting to use Adobe stuff. They do video editing type things and you can tell them you know Premiere which will integrate better with their Adobe programs.


jerronsmith's picture
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 06/04/2008 - 1:24am
Plus Member Moderator

>>I'd say, IF YOU KNOW PHOTOSHOP, then GET PREMIERE. They're both Adobe and if you know one adobe, it won't be too hard to learn another.<<

While I would agree with what Chris says about the amount of integration between the two applications. Just as a warning about the only things that Photoshop and Premiere have in common is that both have a gray interface and a history panel (though Photoshop still calls them palettes), if anything Premiere has been made to resemble FCP more than the other programs in the Adobe line. Knowing Photoshop already won't make it any easier to learn Premiere, though it may help with learning AfterEffects. Still image editing and video editing are two completely different realms, with often very different sets of rules about how the media and the programs work.

Jerron Smith Editor-Animator-Educator blog: www.thepixelsmith.blogspot.com


JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

Hi GuysThanks for ALL your help so far. I get the feeling that FCP would be a good choice, especially the fact that I'm getting a Mac.I juts want to know what would the benefits be if you can combine After-Effects with Premiere?
The problem I have is, I have the opportunity to get a course on Premiere at a good price, where I can not get so much support of FCP (in South Africa). Now I figured from what I've been reading the past few days is if you know Premiere, you would pick up FCP easily, would it be a good decision to get a Premiere course and learn Premiere, and then once I'm familiar with Premiere go to FCP. (I feel at least I can then help my self if I'm stuck with FCP, as the support for Mac/FCP arent that great here in SA)
What I'm saying is it will be a lot easier to get help/support with Premiere than with FCP in SA, as a matter the Premiere support will be free for me as with FCP it will cost me every time I need support.Thanks Joe Louw


davidrichter's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/21/2008 - 6:04pm

For my two cents, go with FCP. I have worked on Premier, FCP and Avid and to me. Premier is more consumer (mini-DV) while FCP is more pro (HD) and Avid is more old school (Film). Granted this is a rudimentary comparison. However, when we have to capture hours and hours of HD or Red footage. FCP is a breeze and I have always found Premier to be a headache.

David
Richter Studios
Chicago's Video Production, Interactive and Presentation Services Company

jerronsmith's picture
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 06/04/2008 - 1:24am
Plus Member Moderator

>>I juts want to know what would the benefits be if you can combine After-Effects with Premiere?<<

After Effects is the industry standard (in the US anyway) application for the creation of broadcast graphics and as such many editors and Motion graphics artists use it for their graphics needs. Normally, when you generate graphics in a program you have to render out a intermediate copy (in high quality video format) for import into your NLE. Adobe has a tool that they call Dynamic Link, which basically allows Premiere to import and display un-rendered After Effects projects. This is the same way that Final Cut can use un-rendered LiveType or Motion projects on it's timeline. This isn't a new feature most software packages have a similar ability since it saves a lot of time on intermediate rendering, the only advantage of the Adobe solution is that it does it with After Effects projects.

>>Premier is more consumer (mini-DV) while FCP is more pro (HD) and Avid is more old school (Film).<<

They all can work with the most of the same general formats. All three can edit mini DV, HD (usually both the consumer HDV and pro standards) and Film (not directly the way you could on a steenbeck but via a digital copy). Out of the box I believe that FCP is the best at editing high def as both Premiere and AVID require hardware acceleration, if I am not mistaken.

Re: Premiere and HD capture

Every frame of the film Superman returns was captured in Premiere Pro.

Jerron Smith Editor-Animator-Educator blog: www.thepixelsmith.blogspot.com


JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

I recently visited a friend that is using PP and another friend who is using FCP. I played around with both software packages for a few hours. My conclusion was that FCP would be a good choice if you would like to get an easy-working, professional video editing software. My take on PP is that it is a liitle bit more difficult, but you have much more control and customisability. Also the fact that all the Adobe family of programs all comunicate well with each other.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a similarity between the two, which is great but my final take on the two software packages, after working a few hours on both would be that PP wins, just because of the vastness of the program. However, PP was on a PC.

I would love to get more info on PP on a MAc platform?

Joe Louw


chrisColorado's picture
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 04/03/2008 - 10:48pm

Out of the box I believe that FCP is the best at editing high def as both Premiere and AVID require hardware acceleration, if I am not mistaken.

Hmm. Seriously? I wanted to teach myself Premiere on my laptop and looks like I need more RAM. If you are right and hardware acceleration is definitely needed no matter who you are, then myesteem of Premiere is extremely low.


Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

I would love to get more info on PP on a MAc platform?

If you check out Adobe's site

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/

You can see that PP works on both Mac and PC now that Macs use Intel processors.

http://www.macworld.com/article/54672/2007/01/premanlysis.html

Hmm. Seriously? I wanted to teach myself Premiere on my laptop and looks like I need more RAM. If you are right and hardware acceleration is definitely needed no matter who you are, then myesteem of Premiere is extremely low.

I worked with Premiere Pro 1.5 on a 2001 Dell with 256MB RAM and 1.6Ghz Pentium 4 with no problems. Keep in mind that PP is professional, and using an underpowered laptop with the latest in professional editing isn't going to work out well.

Chris, if we use the metaphor that your laptop is an engine, and that PP is a car, then you are saying that you're upset that a Corvette doesn't run well with a VW beetle engine.



JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

HI ALL

Yes; that's your thought, great. But you cant use Avid on Mac. We all know that Avid & FCP are the 2 software packages used by the big guys in the industry - simply because Avid is great on PC and FCP is great on Mac, but now with the return of PP CS3 to Mac it might be a different ball game. (Maybe the FCP users are just too afraid for PP CS3, I hope we can clear this up soon)

PP CS3 you can use on Mac and PC, could everybody please put the WAR between Mac and PC aside for now and give us some good pointers on WHY everybody is so anti PP. And not things like "They returned to Mac after a 3 1/2 years absence because Mac now uses Intel chips, and they really let us down in the past".
Maybe we can get some good pointers on WHY everybody feels FCP is better.

It's a very sensitive discussion because I only here of people going from PC to Mac and don't look back. But never do you here from Mac users going back to PC. (Sorry but my seeing is that the Avid & PP users (PC users) can't answer these questions as most of them have most likely not worked on FCP)

The Mac & PC war will always go on forever, both are good in what they do best and I will always use PC and Mac forever. It just makes you think why Mac started to use Intel chips - becauseIntel is the BEST. Now; Mac has always been great. The great just got better, but lets leave that for now.

Why is everybody so negative about PP, (ref to: http://www.macworld.com/article/54672/2007/01/premanlysis.html)
I need to make my decision on FCP or PP for my Mac, but it's very difficult with everybody being so anti PP.
I feel that PP is better because: You have good control over every thing you do.
Example: when editing the sound, it is not like the sound bar in Pinnacle where you have to work very precise with your mouse, and 1st click a few times on the wrong spot where you dont want to click.
Also, I feel that when going into the Video effect section there are more to choose from then that in FCP.

Also I'm a user of Photoshop since 5.0 and its one hell of a powerful package! Nobody came ever close to what Photoshop can do, that's my reason for looking differently at Adobe PP CS3.


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

buy fce, and hold off buying the pro version till you've spent time with the "Light" versions.

one reason I use fce to edit, is the integration with apples other programs, such as iLife and Aperture.

I have found it really easy to have one mac running iMovie hd importing footage from my hdr-hc1, do a rough edit and save it to an ext hd.

I have a second mac running iMovie '08 importing footage from a sony hdr sr12, do a rough edit and save it to an ext hd.

I have a 3rd mac running aperture and photoshop.

I'm able to sit down and open fce grab both video files, overlay them, sync them, cut out unwanted video segments and insert kenburns style photos into the project, print it to tape on the hc1 and send it off to Appletv, Idvd and Iweb for the client.

How's that for integration? I come home from a wedding shoot, in the evening, set up some projects and let the imports go while I sleep. Automator and apple script shut down the macs when the video imoports are done. I use aperture so I'm able to do a rough edit and slideshow at the wedding. The next morning I'm sorting my video clips and photoshopping my photos and if everything goes as planned, I'm ordering prints, assemling albums and ordering books, burning dvd's and getting product to clients in well under three weeks.


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

"I have found it really easy to have one mac running iMovie hd importing footage from my hdr-hc1, do a rough edit and save it to an ext hd.

I have a second mac running iMovie '08 importing footage from a sony hdr sr12, do a rough edit and save it to an ext hd.

I have a 3rd mac running aperture and photoshop."

Haha, wow. How come you have so many Macs? I'm just curious. I love Apple too, but I dunno if I'd get that many computers. ahhh, what am I talkin about. I probably would if i had the money. Surely one of your macs could handle all the work you're doing with 3 though, right?

Like I said though, I'm just curious. Not trying to bust your balls.


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

Because I have another person working with me. Because of the volume of work, and the need to get jobs done on deadlines.

I also have 3 dslrs, 3 video cams, 3 sets of lights.

I can't have one person editing photos and one editing video at the same time on one computer.

I run a business. I make money. Time is money. having two computers crunching video, and one crunching photos, gets a wedding job done in days as opposed to weeks. Then it's on to the next job.



JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

HI ALL

Yes; that's your thought, great. But you cant use Avid on Mac. We all know that Avid & FCP are the 2 software packages used by the big guys in the industry - simply because Avid is great on PC and FCP is great on Mac, but now with the return of PP CS3 to Mac it might be a different ball game. (Maybe the FCP users are just too afraid for PP CS3, I hope we can clear this up soon)

PP CS3 you can use on Mac and PC, could everybody please put the WAR between Mac and PC aside for now and give us some good pointers on WHY everybody is so anti PP. And not things like "They returned to Mac after a 3 1/2 years absence because Mac now uses Intel chips, and they really let us down in the past".
Maybe we can get some good pointers on WHY everybody feels FCP is better.

It's a very sensitive discussion because I only here of people going from PC to Mac and don't look back. But never do you here from Mac users going back to PC. (Sorry but my seeing is that the Avid & PP users (PC users) can't answer these questions as most of them have most likely not worked on FCP)

The Mac & PC war will always go on forever, both are good in what they do best and I will always use PC and Mac forever. It just makes you think why Mac started to use Intel chips - becauseIntel is the BEST. Now; Mac has always been great. The great just got better, but lets leave that for now.

Why is everybody so negative about PP, (ref to: http://www.macworld.com/article/54672/2007/01/premanlysis.html)
I need to make my decision on FCP or PP for my Mac, but it's very difficult with everybody being so anti PP.
I feel that PP is better because: You have good control over every thing you do.
Example: when editing the sound, it is not like the sound bar in Pinnacle where you have to work very precise with your mouse, and 1st click a few times on the wrong spot where you dont want to click.
Also, I feel that when going into the Video effect section there are more to choose from then that in FCP.

Also I'm a user of Photoshop since 5.0 and its one hell of a powerful package! Nobody came ever close to what Photoshop can do, that's my reason for looking differently at Adobe PP CS3.

Lets leave the 3 Macs for another time to discuss and talk about that somewhere else PLEASE.


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

long story short:

I don't have time to waste hacking thing together. Wedding season is short and busy.

I don't buy a "camera" I buy a "system" I make sure I get the best camera, lights, and computer I can to complete the task.

one year I bought an emac (took out the 60 gig hd, and stuck in a 160, upped the ram to 1 gig), software, a dslr, and a set of portable strobes and backdrops. (at the time everything top of the line, at the time).

another year an iMac g5 (maxed out everything, software upgrades etc), a dslr, a video cam, studio strobes)....

another year Macbook (maxed out everything...7200 rpm hd) another video cam, video lights etc, more software.

building a business takes time, effort and money. But planning is key to everything.

next year, we'll be adding live vj'ing to our services.

How can we answer your question without looking at how (our desicion to run final cut) we use the product?

that's like asking if the enzo ferrarri is better than a kenworth truck, without exploring what you intend to do with your vehicle....

I use final cut for two reasons:

It works. (does the job it is needed for)

It works well. (made by apple for apple, no guessing who to call/blame if it ever stops working for any reason).


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

Don,

Sounds like you're life is pretty dialed.

Joe LouW,

I know this is off point from Premier Pro, but you said you can't use AVID on Mac, but you can use AVID on Mac. We have that program on our computers at school, along with FCP and PP. All 3 on all computers...for the video kids at least. Of course, no one bothers using AVID, but the point is you can still use it on Mac.

Back to the point of the thread though...I don't see any reason why people would be anti PP. FCP and PP are very similar. People bring up all the other Adobe products working "better" with PP, but I've never had a problem using Photoshop and Illustrator alongside with FCP, and since it's been brought up, I'd like to know what the problems people have with Photosop/Illustrator and FCP. Honestly, I've never had a problem.

As far as a selection of effects, what effects are you looking for. It's not about which program has more effects to choose from, it's which program provides the effects you need. In my experience, FCP has everything I need, but then again, we may have different styles of editing. I don't like to be all fancy with effects. I basically only dissolve, and do color correction where it's needed, and maybe a few other things. In my situation, FCP has more effects than I need. So think about what you need as opposed to which has "better" effects.

Overall though, I think you'll be satisfied with both programs; they are very similar. In a thread that I read in the past, someone brought up a good point. They said people always argue for the program that they use, and it's because it's the first one they really got good at. Lets face it, no one likes change. So if I learn on FCP, I'm not going to like AVID. If I first learned with AVID, I won't like FCP. So the point is, you're going to like whatever you learn. AVID, FCP and PP I feel are all very good programs. I don't think one is really better than the other.



Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

Overall though, I think you'll be satisfied with both programs; they are very similar. In a thread that I read in the past, someone brought up a good point. They said people always argue for the program that they use, and it's because it's the first one they really got good at. Lets face it, no one likes change. So if I learn on FCP, I'm not going to like AVID. If I first learned with AVID, I won't like FCP. So the point is, you're going to like whatever you learn. AVID, FCP and PP I feel are all very good programs. I don't think one is really better than the other.

I agree with that :) I started out on PC with PP, and then for school had to work with FCE on a Mac. Personally since I am used to to PP that will obviously be what I recommend. I'm not a big fan of FCE, although like all editing programs they do the same thing (edit!) just fine. One big issue I have with FCE is that there is not scene capture. For example, in PP using DV the program will automatically make a clip each time the timecode cuts when you turn your camera off, then turn it back on for your next scene. In FCE it captured the whole tape as one very looooooong file, which I had to go back and review and edit, which was time consuming compared to what I was used to with PP.

But again, you get what you pay for, and whether you choose FCP or PP, you'll have plenty of power to do whatever you want.


jerronsmith's picture
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 06/04/2008 - 1:24am
Plus Member Moderator

>>People bring up all the other Adobe products working "better" with PP, but I've never had a problem using Photoshop and Illustrator alongside with FCP, and since it's been brought up, I'd like to know what the problems people have with Photosop/Illustrator and FCP. Honestly, I've never had a problem<<

Rob,

I think that when most people say that the other programs from Adobe work better with PP they are talking about the support for Photoshop and Illustrator's native file formats (PSD and AI). I think that is all it has over FCP in integration. I know that FCP can import PSD files but I don't think it does that for AI. It can also import unrendered After Effects projects.

I actively cut and teach with both PP and FCP. I think that while the logic behind some of the things they do is a bit different, they are pretty much very similar programs.

There are certain areas where Premiere Pro is superior to Final Cut Pro and vice versa. Not even the guys on the Premiere Pro development team like to get pulled into a direct feature comparison with FCP because the programs are very similar in most regards. I believe that whichever you have it it less the tool and more about the person who uses it that determines whether a project will come out well or not.

I have used PP on both the MAC and Windows operating systems and from personal experience I believe that on the MAC side it was a bit unstable for me. It crashed about six times in a two day period, which the PC usually crashes once or twice during two days. But this is just personal and depends on the computers configuration.

Jerron Smith Editor-Animator-Educator blog: www.thepixelsmith.blogspot.com


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

Here's an intersting experiment:

google "adobe premier crashes" see how many hits you find.

now google "final cut crashes" see how many hits you find.

now we all know that apple has about 5-10 % of the market share of the pc's, so I'd guess that 5-10% of whatever number of hits you get for premier would be a fair expectation, if both platforms crash equally.....

I got 354 hits for final cut and 420,000 for premier..... It seems that the numbers would indicate that premier crashes at over 100 to 1, even if you factor market share into the equation....

But math never was my best subject....

lol


havalilsi's picture
Last seen: 6 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/27/2008 - 3:57pm

Had to weigh in on this thread.

I've been using Premiere from 6.5 to PPCS CS2 and now CS3. I learned PP CS by watching a friend of mine while he was editing on a Mac, so I guess they are similar. As far as crashing, I usually crash once or twice a week, but I've seen another friend on mine crash enough times with FCP on his Mac also.

My CS3 suite came with a tutorial DVD which is pretty good. And most of the tuts are actually done on Macs.

There are alot of tuts out there for Adobe products, but you already know that since you're using Photoshop. Personally Photoshop was one of toughest programs I ever tried to learn.After watching my friend on FCP for 10 minutes, I was able to tackle Premiere Pro. In addition to the tuts I got with the CS3 bundle, I'm able to do pretty well.


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

The problem with the whole pc/mac and final cut/premier arguments is this:

Some people ask pros for advice on which is better, then get upset when the pros recommend and defend what they (the pros)already bought, instead of what they (the person asking the question) were planning to purchase. They see a good deal on something, and just want to be told they're right.

People fail to recognize that pros are by and large using top of the line (at time of purchase) equipment.

So a pro tells you that pc's don't crash any more often than macs. That is like asking Jeff Gordon how to drive. What car is best. Then taking what he tells you and going out on the streets in your beat up old Chevy.

Any off the shelf mac will run fce just fine with very few crashes (you'd have to load up a project with tonnes of clips/effects/filters etc to over tax the system to the point it crashes).

the same can't be said for any off the shelf pc.

You max out the ram on a mac, and as an off the shelf video editing station, your average project, and even most big ones, will not crash.

Since I started learning video, and then added video to my wedding photography business, I have not had a single crash. I've had macs running video projects getting used 6-10hrs/day four or five days a week for four months straight, no down time.

scout these forums and do the math...how many people asking for help with thier pscs vs how many asking for help on the macs, then check what kind of help they're asking for...creative/production, or tech support.

Why final cut? because it was made by the people that made the hardware.. plain and simple.

But I already bought macs, and use finalcut express....so what would you expect me to say?


Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

scout these forums and do the math...how many people asking for help with thier pscs vs how many asking for help on the macs, then check what kind of help they're asking for...creative/production, or tech support.

Don't want to get too off topic here, but also keep in mind that if there is a 9-1 ratio of people asking for help with PC vs. Mac, that's because 9 out of 10 (or something very similar to that) readers use PCs. So of course there will be more people asking for help for PC!

Personally I've had about 10 PP crashes for the 3 years I've been using it. About 4 crashes so far on FCE for the year I've been using it. So it's about even.

But let's keep it to how the software works rather than personal program crashes we've had. That depends as much on how you've set up your computer and how many resources it has more so than which company created the OS.

It sounds to me like you're leaning towards PP, since you're already doing well with Photoshop. So if you're more familiar with, and have a good experience with, Adobe products then why change? That's my two cents.

Here's an intersting experiment:

google "adobe premier crashes" see how many hits you find.

now google "final cut crashes" see how many hits you find.

now we all know that apple has about 5-10 % of the market share of the pc's, so I'd guess that 5-10% of whatever number of hits you get for premier would be a fair expectation, if both platforms crash equally.....

I got 354 hits for final cut and 420,000 for premier..... It seems that the numbers would indicate that premier crashes at over 100 to 1, even if you factor market share into the equation....

But math never was my best subject....

lol

I just did that search...

Results 1 - 10 of about 625,000 for premiere pro crashes.

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,200,000 for final cut crashes.


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

you didn't read back far enough in the thread....

a quick search shows that the ratio of premier users having problems, to final cut users, was over a 1000 to one. not ten to one.

you didn't use quotes to isolate the search to specific parameters. you just proved the word, "Final" got more hits than the word "Premier"


Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

I must disagree with you, sir. For your claim to Premiere users having 1000 more problems than FC, was that directed towards a search on this site, or a search engine? My response was directed at the quote of people having troubles with their platform, not the program.

And if you disagree with what I found with a standard google search referring to program crashes, I direct you towards these screencaptures as proof to clear up this silly misunderstanding!


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

put the quotes around the phrases to weed out results like:The Incredible Hulk: Creative 'Hulk' Differences Make Norton Smash...

11 Mar 2008...NortonCrash! Norton Bash! norton.jpg...legendarily exacting Norton has been locking horns with the Marvel Studios brass overfinal cut:...
defamer.com/366670/ creative-hulk-differences-make-norton-smash-norton-crash-norton-bash"

you need to understand how search engines work and what using quotes does to narrow down inaccurate results.


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

Yea, you gotta put quotes around your search or google will search each individual words.

But anyway, I'm surprised how much you guys talk about your computers crashing. I've had my Mac Pro for almost a year now (I got it in Sept 07), and I haven't had any crashes. The only time I'm not sitting at my computer editing is when I'm at school or when I need to take a break for an hour to two. For the most part I edit every day. I don't really have a point. I'm just stickin up for Mac and FCS2. :)


Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

Irregardless. In doing so, "final cut crashes" yielded just under 400 hits, while "premiere pro crashes" yielded just over 800. That doesn't correspond with your 1000 "premiere problems" to 1 "final cut" problem, nor does it correspond to the fact that there are 9 PC users to 1 MAC user. The numbers just don't add up for me!

But I digress.

Program crashes have lots more to do with your system setup than the program, so let's turn back towards the pros and cons of the software rather than opinions on which hardware cause more crashes!


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

"Irregardless. In doing so, "final cut crashes" yielded just under 400 hits, while "premiere pro crashes" yielded just over 800. That doesn't correspond with your 1000 "premiere problems" to 1 "final cut" problem, nor does it correspond to the fact that there are 9 PC users to 1 MAC user. The numbers just don't add up for me!"

I wouldn't expect numbers to add up for you.

Seem to be unable to read, or comprehend simple english or to be capable of following simple instructions.

I said key in "final cut crashes" and "adobe premier crashes". The way you typed it, includes both amature and pro versions of final cut while excluding the amature version of Adobe premier. (which more people use).

Since you're smart enough to spell "google", I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're just trying to mislead people into thinking you're right.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you.



D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

"JUST GET A MAC"

Well said.

There are four kinds of people in this world.

Those that learn by reading.

Those that learn by observing.

Those that have to stick their hand in a fire to see if it really is hot.

And finally, those that stick thier hand BACK into the fire to see if it's STILL HOT.....



Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

I wouldn't expect numbers to add up for you.

Seem to be unable to read, or comprehend simple english or to be capable of following simple instructions.

I said key in "final cut crashes" and "adobe premier crashes". The way you typed it, includes both amature and pro versions of final cut while excluding the amature version of Adobe premier. (which more people use).

Since you're smart enough to spell "google", I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're just trying to mislead people into thinking you're right.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you.

DOn, I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight with you, but I think you're trying to cause a conflict with me. I don't appreciate being insulted, when I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from. I am trying to get the thread back on track to comparing the programs, while you seem to be bent on insulting me, while at the same time focusing on MAC rather than software. If you want to take this argument into PMs, then by all means do so. I'm game. But I don't think this bickering is helping the original poster with his questions about software. I think because you're an Apple fanatic, that you're trying to mislead people into buying MAC. I use both, and you don't see me on my soapbox promoting PCs. I'm promoting SOFTWARE, because that was the orignial focus on this thread.

Again, I am not trying to mislead, nor cause conflict, and I'll try not to take offensive at your remarks, sir. Can we please get back on track?


D0n
D0n's picture
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2007 - 5:28pm

if one likes premier on windoze, then one will like premier on osx.

if one has never tried final cut, one should.

if you're not sure, about what to do, then go with final cut on the mac. if you hate it, then boot up windoze from boot camp and run premier on the mac running windoze.

Either way you'll have a better/safer/easier editing experiance.

if you have any problems with final cut on a mac, there is only one company (who is responsible for both hardware and software) to call for help, and they will help you, as Apple is the highest rated company in the industry for supporting customers. so it IS about the software...one cannot seperate the software written by the hardware manfacturer, for the hardware, when deciding. Final cut is the final answer.

you have only to carefully read this thread to see how far in the sand Premier user have their heads, to see how hard they try to defend an inferior product, because they bought it. One person who I won't discuss any further typed premier pro crashes, then "premier pro crashes", both times came back calling me wrong, when he did and does still refuse to type in "adobe premier crashes". Easiest to lie to oneself. The best liars are those that lie to themselves, believe thier own lies, then try to fool others. A simple search reveals that "Adobe premier" users experiance "Crashes" one thousand to one compared to "final cut crashes" when the market shares say apple has ten percent of the market share then Apple should've had a one to ten ratio on that search, not one to one thousand....



JoeLouw's picture
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 07/31/2008 - 5:30am

Just a question that came to mind now:

If you own a mac (with Intel chip) and PP CS3 for mac, will PP install on the mac os or do you have to install Windows os on your mac in order for that PP CS3 for mac to work?

Just note we are now talking about the NEW PP CS3



Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

PP will install with the Mac OS fine so long as you have an intel chip. I had a similar question at school with After Effects, and it installed to the Mac OS without needing Windows. So you should be good to go - just remember to order the Mac version!

DOn, I don't understand why you continue to take cheap shots at me and Adobe/windows users. Your immature slurs and insults aren't productive at all. You seem to be insecure enough to need to attack nonMac users directly. That's not a good way to get people to support the products that you vaunt about. I ask you to take your problems up with me on PM. Stop making a scene here.

And just an FYI, my ignorant friend....it's spelled "premiere", not premier.


jerronsmith's picture
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 06/04/2008 - 1:24am
Plus Member Moderator

Attention Everyone,

Can't we try to maintain a little civility here.

Resorting to name calling and insults really doesn't help anything.

Last time I checked we were all adults here (mostly). Can't we please act like it.

Lets not have this devolve into another Flame war.

If anyone is wondering why I care, If you notice underneath my name it doesn't say "Member" it says "Moderator".

Jerron Smith Editor-Animator-Educator blog: www.thepixelsmith.blogspot.com


Ryan3078's picture
Last seen: 8 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/27/2005 - 3:48pm

Joe, if you go to

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=premiere_pro

and create a free account, you can grab a trial of PP CS3 and see how it works out for you.


tqla's picture
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 02/04/2009 - 10:10am

I read this whole string and here's my assessment.

Don, you're a apple fanboy who thinks you're a "pro" because you bought a mac.

Rob, you're a lemming.

Jerron, you're a wealth of knowledge.

Ryan, you're awesome and will most likely go far in this industry because of your understanding that it's talent and not tools that create good programming.

Me? I spent 10+ years on Avid and now spend my time editing for fun using FCP, Sony Vegas, and Cinelerra. And, NO, not making "wedding videos".

Good luck Joe, I hope you saw through the fanboy BS and go with what's affordable and what feels right to you. Remember, all the viewer enjoys is the final product. (Although, Don, probably puts the apple logo in the lower right hand corner. lol)


Rob Grauert's picture
Last seen: 10 months 5 days ago
Joined: 02/16/2008 - 10:47pm

What the big deal if people are really into Apple? Some people are just fed up with PCs. Get over it.

Just because people prefer Apple, doesn't mean they don't realize that skill is just as important, if not more important, that the tools used. What good is skill if you have crappy tools that don't work or are so annoying to use that you spend more time trouble shooting than actually working?


composite1's picture
Last seen: 8 months 5 days ago
Joined: 12/11/2008 - 7:54pm
Plus Member Moderator

Man,

It is truly sad to continuously see 'pros' still sqabbling over PC's & Mac's.

Ryan, way to stick to those guns boyo! If you've got a camerahand to match that eye for detail, you can crew up with me any day.

Joe,

You said at the startyou're in the beginning stage of editing. Before you make any hard decisions, ask yourself; what are my goals for potential edited projects? Are you planning to do small projects in a non-profit capacity? Do you plan on editing professionally? If so, at what level (i.e. freelance or full-time business?) What will be the ultimate distribution pipeline(s) for your completed work (DVD, Internet, broadcast, etc.?) Answering these questions will give you a much clearer idea of the kind of editing system you're going to need.

Let's just say you're looking at the 'pro (freelance, full-time business) level. To turn out quality professional looking product you're going to need a system capable of doing what you need to achieve said look. Just so you know, the higher-end you want to go the more you're going to have to invest in software and hardware. On a side note, depending on your skillset you can 'get away with' working on a much lesser system with lesser software but it's so much more work!

Now to be clear, I've worked with both Macs and PC's since '96. In '97 I was doing field repairs and upgrades on graphicmac workstations. By '98I started on my own doing the same on PC's because I couldn't afford a mac. Though now I am fluent with building custom NLE's for the PC platform, I also do occasional editing work with mac based NLE's. I currently prefer PC's because if anything goes awry, I can fix it. I have no intention of 'retooling' my production company to a mac setup, but consistantly collaborate with collegues and contractors who use both systems and I use software that aids in said collaboration.

So, to answer your question (and reaffirm some other posters); No, you can't use FCE or P on anything other than a mac. You can't use Vegas Pro (which has been mentioned) on anything but a PC. You can use Avid Media Composer on a mac (it was originally designed for mac), but you can't use Avid Symphony on a mac (if you could afford it, you wouldn't care!) Premeire Pro can be used on a PC or Mac (provided it has an intel chip).

Something you should consider if you're going the pro route to editing; whatever platform you choose, it has been my experience to use an NLE computer with two monitors and a desktop configured as a workstation. Two reasons why I would recommend against getting a 'one piece' (built-in monitor and desktop). First, when editing having a second monitor is a necessity (not a luxury). You'll need the space to work with your editing window, timeline, audio controls and the numerous bins your project will acquire during the edit. Two, if your built-in monitor goes bad unless you haveanother monitor,you'll have a nice paperweight sitting on your editing table.

Lastly, when it comes to deciding on which software to use consider the previous and what will give you the best workflow pipeline for your current budget? FCP is a great program, but unless you plan on getting Shake, Motion and other apple-only graphics support software, you're most likely going to end up getting Adobe software. So whatever money you save on FCP up front, you'll end up spending getting support software. On the otherhand, adobe makes most of the 'industry standard' programs and offers them in one bundle. Just some stuff to think about. Good luck with your decision.

H.Wolfgang Porter, Composite Media Producer Dreaded Enterprises Unlimited, Inc. www.dreadedenterprises.com


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