DVD Architect shortens my video

1. doublehamm
   Member

   

    I am just starting to shoot for a new local comedy TV show.  With that in mind, they require their programs to be exactly 58:30 in content length, with 3 seconds of black in front and 3 seconds of black at the end for a total length of 58:36.  The original footage is in HD, and the station will soon be broadcasting in HD, but for now they only handle SD. 

   I have made 2 different versions of the show rendered from vegas, one .mpg, and the other .m2v (video only).  When I render out the video to SD, the timing is still in tact according to Vegas , and windows media player.  The finished file still shows the true length I intended. 

   Now, when I load them into DVD architect (they want it video only with no menus) both version show up as just over 58:32, almost 4 seconds short of what is required.  I thought this might be a mistake so I compiled discs from each of these 2 formats.  DVD architect does NOT re-render - in fact it akes less than 5 minutes of compiling before it starts burning the actual DVD so I know there is no re-rendering going on, and I never received a message that would normally show if a video needs to be recompressed. 

   Is there a reason the final DVD is shortening up the video?  I am really boggled considering there is no recompression going on period, and it is basically file to disc for playback.  This wouldn't be an issue on a wedding video etc, but this needs to be set to specific standards by the broadcasting station. 

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Chuck Zoots
   Member

   

   have you tried  Tools / Burn /to dvd form the timeline

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. doublehamm
   Member

   

    Not yet, Straight from Vegas right?  I will have to try that. 

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. daryldrj
   Member

   

   When you look down in the right hand corner does it show you have enough disk space. I have burned DVD's from Architect and they have come up short before because my file was to big an I was not paying attention  

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. doublehamm
   Member

   

    There is definitely enough space and the entire file pretty much gets built straight into DVD form with no compression or re rendering. 

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. daryldrj
   Member

   

   Ok just a shot in the dark there trying to figure out why it would do that

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. Cville
   Member

   

   I'll throw this out there but I think you already have this covered.  When you render your file out of the timeline in Vegas you select the area for rendering.  On occasion when I zoom in on my selection of a long project my selection was not at the actual end of the project but a second or so short.  Just something else to check. 

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. doublehamm
   Member

   

    When you select a timeline in vegas, there is a timer on the area selected so I know it is correct.  Also the mpg/m2v files come up at the correct time after the render. 

   I don't mean to just sit here and keep disproving theories I promise! Thanks all for the input so far. 

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. onehorn
   Member

   

    Question: Does the TV station play to broadcast from DVD? or do they load the DVD file onto a computer system for broadcast?

   Having done several commercials (shot HD rendered to SD NTSC widescreen) all the stations so far have been able to use an mpeg file burned to a data disk.  Since they are transferring the video file from a DVD disk onto their own system this was an easy way to go, and actually saved them the time of having to rip the video from a DVD formatted source.

   Of course you have to deliver the video in whatever format the station asks you for, but it is worth asking the question.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. doublehamm
    Member

    

     The station requested it in DVD playable format with no menus.  Just some black in front and some in back.  It is not Public Access, but a fully member supported station that broadcasts to 12 counties in the Twin Cities metro area.  The signal is slightly better than average Public Access, but will soon be broadcast in HD as soon as their new equipment arrives.  Then I should be able to hopefully give them BD or AVCHD files - I never did check to see if BD would shorten this as well. 

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Jennifer O'Rourke
    Staff

    

    Hey, Doublehamm... this is a long shot, but I had a similar problem several years ago with a DVD program I was working on, [I can't remember what it was] And I did some experimenting, laying a LOT of black,then a little, to see if it was the black that was causing the problem, and it was.

    The DVD program wouldn't "read" the black space at the beginning and end of the piece. So I 'tricked' it into thinking there was some information there by laying a very low tone or white noise audio track in the black area, and faded it down right before it got to the actual video. That worked for me, and no one caught the noise because it was so low.

    Managing Editor
    jorourke@videomaker.com
    VM Customer Support: 1-800-284-3226

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. Johnboy
    Member

    

     my first thought is the time selection of the rendered footage.  I always look at the total time of the selected region.  I've never had a file chopped off by dvd-a.  It renders what I give it.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. doublehamm
    Member

    

     Time selection is correct.  3 versions of it now.  The file plays in WMP at full length as well. 

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. doublehamm
    Member

    

    Pretty sure I figured it out.  The Vegas default time format is Time and Frames (which can be changed).  Apparently DVD Architect's format is SMPTE NON-Drop time code.  Which one would give me the true time reading then?

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. rs170a
    Member

    

    The broadcast industry works on drop frame.

    I used to have a paper on it but can no longer find it as it did a great job of explaining the differences.

    It has to do with the change from black & white at 30 fps to colour at 29.97 fps with non-drop being 108 frames too long over a one hour period.

    Since 120 frames = 4 seconds, this would account for your "almost 4 seconds" difference.

    I've posted this on the Sony Vegas forum to see if anyone agrees with me and I'll let you know.

     

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. rs170a
    Member

    

    I posted it and, as usual, a useful reply was very quick :)

    Put your program on the Vegas timeline.

    Make sure that your ruler is
    set to SMPTE Drop Frame TC.

    This will give you the accurate length of
    the program.

     

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. doublehamm
    Member

    

    Alright thanks for the reply!  Now I am trying to vision this in my mind.  Since it was originally in something closer to a drop-frame format, and DVD architect seems to be NON drop this gets a bit confusing.  This would make me assume that my original render IS CORRECT, but when I play in ANY DVD player, it comes up the few seconds short.  Does this mean that DVD players are all non-drop and all technically come up a few seconds short each hour per the DVD display, but really play to the time it was rendered out if I took a stopwatch to it?

    Posted 1 year ago #

18. rs170a
    Member

    

    There is no "closer to a drop frame format". It's either drop frame or it's non-drop frame.

    I did some timing tests and here are the results using the identical video for each test.

    Ruler set to "Time" - 01:09:04:240

    Ruler set to "SMPTE 30 (30 fps, Audio)" - 01:09:04:07

    Ruler set to "SMPTE Non-Drop (29.97 fps, Video)" - 01:09:04:09

    Ruler set to "SMPTE Drop Frame(29.97 fps, Video)" - 01:09:00:03

    The first three are close enough to each other to, IMO, be considered identical in length.

    Drop Frame mode is where the discrepancy shows up and I'm sure this is what you're seeing.

    BTW, I found the white paper I mentioned earlier.

    I see no way of posting attachments here so give me an email address if you want it and I can send it to you (4 MB. PDF).

     

    Mike.

    Posted 1 year ago #

19. doublehamm
    Member

    

    I am getting opposite results at the moment. The non-drop frame is shorter than the drop frame. 

     

    SMPTE Drop-Frame (29.97 fps, Video) 59:37;03

    SMPTE Non-Drop frame(29.97 fps, Video)  59:33:15

    Time 59:37.074

    SMPTE 30FPS 59:37:02

     

    Not
    sure why this is all backwards and why this confuses me even more.  I
    just triple checked all those times and what I posted is correct.  I can
    send you my email in a PM, and appreciate the help!

     

    Posted 1 year ago #

20. XTR-91
    Member

    

    What format are you saving in?

    Posted 1 year ago #

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