Comment about To Tips and Tricks: How shoot a fight scene

1. SargeHero
   Member

   

   First I must congratulate the Videomaker team for another excellent Vidcast.
   Since I have been in Videomaker.com I haven't miss any, thanks a lot. Now, on
   with my comment, there is a Korean movie called Old Boy that have the most
   insane fighting scene I have ever seen in my life. They never cut, never move
   the camera for CU, nothing. The camera is just moving vertically to the right, it's
   an amazingly well plan fighting scene. This fighting scene took 17 takes and 3
   days to perfect it, and is one continuous
   shot (Source: Wikipedia. NOTE: If you haven't seen the movie, don't read
   Wikipedia. See the movie, it's amazing) 

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   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Tom Skowronski
   Staff

   

   Thank you! We are glad that you like them. And yes, this is a very impressive fight scene. Others to consider here:

    

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   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Don
   Member

   

   the best fight scenes ever imho Jackie chan...legend of the drunken master.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. composite1
   Moderator

   

   The direction and camera choices in The Old Guy and Protector are interesting ones. Excellent fight coordination. I loved the Old Guy scene because it shows the 'pain and sloppiness' of real fighting. No matter how good shape you are in, fighting is an energy draining activity. As many hardstyle martial artists (Karate, Muay Thai, etc.) can harden their bodies and increase their resistance to pain, fighting 'hurts' and it's an accumulative effect. In the Old Guy scene everyone involved looked looked like they just took a whuppin' and me the audience never doubted it.

   The Protector scene was okay. As a director I didn't like the choice of camera angle used for a single take fight scene. I would have made a different choice. In my opinion, the fight scenes in Ong Bak featuring the same actor Tony Jaa were fresher. My all time favorite fight scenes came from Lethal Weapon 4. Some of the best mixing of 'real-world/hollywood' fight coordination I've seen to date. I've been fortunate enough to direct and coordinate some fight scenes and Jet Li from these movies have always been my inspiration. I'm just sorry they didn't include the rooftop fight in with these clips.

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   Posted 2 years ago #

5. Tom Skowronski
   Staff

   

   There isn't a clip of it on youtube that i can locate, but my personal fav is the climax of Rapid Fire with Brandon Lee-it's artistic & feels very real! But... no clip! so y'all are just going to have to take my word for it. And I enjoyed The Protector clip because of the angle. But that just goes to show ya, if you put 10 directors or editors in a room and gave them the same script that all 10 projects would end up looking different from one and another.
   Here is another of my favs

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   Posted 2 years ago #

6. composite1
   Moderator

   

   Tom,

   That was a mighty fine fight scene. I wanted to show an 'oldschool' fave from the 'Quiet Man' with John Wayne but they had some doofus disco track attached to it. In it's place I submit one from 'Equillibrium' with Christian Bale (pre Batman scowly voice) demonstrating 'Gunkata' martial art based on firearms.

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   Posted 2 years ago #

7. Tom Skowronski
   Staff

   

   Here is a bad one that might result in a few laughs:

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   Posted 2 years ago #

8. composite1
   Moderator

   

   Tom,

   Come on! How could you not like the 'Gorn Fight'? That is classic Trek baby! I just wish I could do my voice like the Gorn when curse words just don't express my true level of perturbment. Now you've got me thinking about what's the worst fight scene I've ever seen. I'll get back to you on that.

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Don
   Member

   

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   probably the most realistic fight scene in american film history

   if you've ever seen the movie, Billy goes up against about 15-20 guys and his but kicked.

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    Well here is a better version for ya then:
    

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    Posted 2 years ago #

11. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    ok sorry, but I dig the b-movies... and this movie was way out of control... Guys please watch, we will comment later-this is "The Story of Ricky-Oh"
    (Graphic-not for the weak at heart)
    

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    and why not another
    (Warning! Even mroe graphic)
    

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    Posted 2 years ago #

12. candjvideo
    Member

    

     My favorite fight scene ever in a movie was from 'They Live'.  The movie was not all that great, but Roddy Piper brought his wrestling skills and ability to choreograph an amazingly realistic fight scene in this one. 

    Posted 2 years ago #

13. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Candj,

    Darn tootin' Hoss! Definitely how grown men fight. In your honor I present this clip.

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    Posted 2 years ago #

14. Don
    Member

    

    oh boy...

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    <span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; white-space: pre;">

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    Posted 2 years ago #

15. SargeHero
    Member

    

    I have enjoy the fighting scenes that all of you had posted. I havent
    yet try to make a fighting scene, but I think I will adventure in this
    field in a near future (after I get more experience in my martial art) This scenes are kind of dangerous. Now, I want to post
    a fighting scene from a videogame called Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of
    the Patriot. This amazing videogame is like a movie and one could get a
    few ideas for a video production.

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    Posted 2 years ago #

16. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

     haha funny you mentioned the They Live fight scene... I am sorry, but it is NOT realistic! I actually cut it together with South Park a long time ago for a b-movie night:

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    Posted 2 years ago #

17. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    SargeHero i was plenty surprized by that Metal Gear Solid fight scene. It actual contained some legitimate Akido & clinch techniques. However, what really got me is how EPIC it is! Here is another one of my favs (there is an interesting tutorial on this US version vs. the JC version out there on youtube as well that explains certain shooting tricks used for the contact. You guys all need to check that out)
    

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    Posted 2 years ago #

18. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Tom,

    You say the They Live sequence isn't realistic? Have you ever been in a knockdown-drag'em out fistfight with someone who was just as strong and determined as you were? I have and it was a lot like that fight and nearly as long. Fighting outside of a controlled event whether trained or untrained is a tiring, painful and sloppy business. When all was said and done, both guys looked and acted like they had been in a fight. That's why the scenes from the Old Guy and Lethal Weapon 4 looked so good. If you've ever truly gotten your but kicked, you tend to lay there and hope they don't hit you anymore. Even when you're the victor, you breathing hard and in some measure of pain. I still think the They Live fight scenes is one of the best out there.

    Posted 2 years ago #

19. Don
    Member

    

    nobody takes that many hits and gets up.

    three full weight knees to the groin? do the words "Shattered pelvis" mean anything to you?

    in real life, the first solid contact determines the outcome 9 times outa ten.

    in real life, fights rarely last more than 15 seconds and both winner and loser are exhausted...

    if you hit an oppenant that many times, and they aren't dead, crippled or ko'd it's cause you hit like a schoolgirl... and should consider takin up lovin' instaeda' fightin'.

    Just sayin'

    Posted 2 years ago #

20. SargeHero
    Member

    

    "Fighting outside of a controlled event whether trained or untrained is a tiring, painful and sloppy business."

    I agree, this is something to be avoided. Although the They Live sequence is kind of slow, it surely have a realistic fighting scenario. I personally think that this type of scenes are not that attracting to audience and I think that audiences prefer scenes that leave with a "How the hell did he do that?" Does scenes from Legend of the Druken Master, holy God, amazing choreography.

     

    Posted 2 years ago #

21. SargeHero
    Member

    

    DOn:

    You have a good point but there is a thing to why people
    keeps fighting, the adrenaline rush fighting produce. You're mind
    becomes so desperate in the situation, you don't know what to do, and
    the only thing that is in your mind is hit the guy, hit the guy or like
    Composite said "hope they don't hit you anymore" A fight that
    last 15 seconds is one were the person takes such a hard hit that is
    not able to even stand up, but usually people fight throwing random
    hits. Now, 15 seconds is what it takes for someone highly trained in
    Aikido to finish the fight. But for the purpose of this forum we should
    all stay out of fights and start seeing them as spectators to get a few
    ideas an imagine, how will I shot this if I have a camera?

    Posted 2 years ago #

22. KenzoFKC
    Member

    

    Wow. I can't believe nobody is touting Jet Li's "Fist of Legend." IMHO the finest martial arts film ever made.  Here Li plays the student of the character he played in "Fearless."  He returns to China from studying in Japan after his master dies.  This fight here is Li fighting his girlfriend's uncle, who was sent by a Japanese general to take Li out.  So it's a nice Karate/Kung Fu battle.  Too bad the quality of this clip sucks...

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    SargeHero,  I studied Aikido for about 6 years, a long time ago.  As an aikidoka I was absolutely convinced of it's superiority over all other martial arts.  My brother started studying Brazilian Ju-Jitsu recently, and Muay Thai.  Within a year he was able to tap out an Aikido black belt. BJJ is hands down the most effective combat form in the world.  I still like to think an Aikidoka could hold their own against anybody, but unfortunately we will never see Aikido tested in a UFC/MMA type setting, as competition goes against the very ethos of Aikido. 

    Still, for my money, the best Aikido captured in movies is from early Steven Segal films.  People talk smack about him, and he is a joke now, but he was the first foreigner to teach a Japanese martial art to the Japanese in their own country.  That spells instant credibility in my book.

    Oh, and speaking of long continuous shots, howabout that Children of Men?  Friggin awesome!

    Ken Carlson
    
    http://kineticvisionmedia.com

    Posted 2 years ago #

23. Don
    Member

    

    here's one that has both top notch action, and some excellent lighting and camera work...jet li again, Romeo Must Die...

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    my idea of a fight is to try and finish it quickly...

    I once had a guy come into a bar I worked at, he was beaten up pretty bady, said a bunch of guys were after him.

    I told him to get behind the bar with the bartender who was already calling 911.

    I grabbed a beer off the bar and sat down at the bar to blend as a bar patron, as three men came in, I wanted to be able to surprise them, if they went after the first guy...

    they stopped in front of the bar and started calling the guy out...

    the bartender told them "I got 911 on the phone, you guys leave now!"

    the guy closest to the bar shouts back "Or what?"

    I turn around holding the beer bottle at eye level to the guy, with my right hand...and tell him "or I'm gonna put this beer down"

    I let go of the beer, hit him with my right, breaking his nose and knocking him down, and catch the beer with my right..

    I look at the other two and say "get him out of here or i'll put this beer down" they ran out

    that is three guys faster than you can read one sentence.

    Posted 2 years ago #

24. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    composite1 no offense, They Live doesn't have a realistic bone in it's body. I shoot a wrestling show on the side, and I've had the pleasure of meeting Roddy Pipper. And even he would tell you, that the fight scene is just a take on the height of professional wrestling in the mid 80's. Never ever would a real fight look like that, plain and simple. And ya, it's unfortunite but i've had my bootie handed to me on more than one occasion (i should just shut it sometimes) and it didn't look like that at all... it looked like a real fight and not They Live. MMA is as close to what real fighting looks like that you can see. As far as artistic elements of stunt work, contact and pure descipline style Tony Jaa, Brue Lee, Donnie Yen & Jackie Chan were as close as it came. Wire fighting isn't realistic guys, sorry. And neither is a suplex, drop down, cross body spot in They Live... lol
    

    Posted 2 years ago #

25. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    with that being said, I do love bad movies... but that's because I recognize how awful they are. I find that to be harlarrious!!! KenzoFKC Children of Men was impressive & beautiful

    Posted 2 years ago #

26. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Tom,

    The They Live scene is believable not because of the choreography itself. Few if any actual fights have a give and take so even. What makes it believable is the actors sell the hits and the compounded injuries quite well. And I've been involved in the martial arts for a very long time, taught for awhile and have trained with folks from more styles than I can remember including proponents of MMA style fighting. Anybody that tries to fight like that in real life is going to get themselves killed. Anyone stupid enough to get in close enough to grapple with me will wish they hadn't.

    I liked the TL scene because its reminiscent of semi-trained brawlers who know just enough about fighting to make a mess. Anyway, I'm sure debating 'which style is better' wasn't what the thread was about. Martial arts is about human movement and if you are well trained in how the human body can move, all styles weaknesses can be exploited. BTW, I'm still scouring the net for the worst fight scene I've ever seen.

     

     

    Posted 2 years ago #

27. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

     yes I made a compilation of bad fights or, what you guys would know as the worst but there are just SO many! I believe that one of the worst came from a movie called the Incrediable Kid. In which a midget takes on 4 people, one of them is a woman, who pulls a gun on him. The clip exists and I will find it!

    Posted 2 years ago #

28. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    haha here we go and it's The Impossible Kid:

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    Posted 2 years ago #

29. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

    in my opinion this is one of the most underrated Jackie Chan films in terms of fight scenes and innovation:

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    Posted 2 years ago #

30. Tom Skowronski
    Staff

    

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    better version without the awesome soundtrack

    Posted 2 years ago #

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