Block the Dvd's from duplicating « Videomaker Community Forums

jhumpir
Member

Hi there,

I do wedding videos and use nero to burn my dvd's is there a way I can burn it so nobody else can copy it. I want my customer to come to me for duplicating the dvd not some xyz kids who can do it for free.

Does nero or any other software does that. Thanks a lot.

shahzad

Posted 5 years ago #
Endeavor
Member

Try using the search feature for more details, as this has been brought up many a time. But the short answer is no. There is no useful way to copy protect unless you are having the DVDs replicated instead of burned at home (and even then, it's still quite simple to copy a dvd).

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Ah, one of the very few times I get to disagree with my friend Adam!

Yes, you can protect your DVDs when burning them at home. Like Adam said, use the Search feature of these forums "copy protect" should do it, or some variation of that.

The process I've developed involves creating an mpeg2 file of black video of a certain size, burning this as to be on the very outside of the disk, then scratching an arc through this portion with a jeweler's screwdriver, etc.

Since this is one of the things we'll cover in our wedding videographer course, I prefer not to give more detail here, but with triald and error, you can figure things out from this.

The only way you can copy a DVD protected in this manner is by lifting the vob files. Just doing a DVD disk copy, even with Nero, will not work.

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

There is another feature like this that does not involve scratching the disk. But is does involve knowing how the VOB files are formatted. Much like it is decribed above you can make a black part of the video, which is a part that is never played by the dvd player, so your intro chapter is set after the black video. then you can supposedly edit the VOB file so that the parity bits (error checking codes) do not match the intended information. So when someone tries to Rip the DVD they will get a Cyclic Redundancy Check:
http://www.softwarepatch.com/tips/cyclic-redundancy.html

This should in theory do the same thing as scratching the disk, but you will not have to make guesses and it will be uniform to all disks that are burned. Now I have never done this myself. and I do not know the VOB format so as to how to do this or where the parity bits are located I have no idea. But I have seen it done of professional DVDs.

Mind you it is still possible to get around such hinderances, but it involves removing parts of the VOB file BEFORE ripping and some other things.

I can do more looking into this for you is you want me to.

Posted 5 years ago #
Endeavor
Member

I agree with you guys. That's why I said "the short answer is no" lol. But yeah.

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Great info, Thomas! But the problem with software created crc's is that there are programs out there that can get around them. That's why I prefer a hard solution. A hacking program can itself determine what the bits should be and feed that data in, bypassing the software-generated crc. A hard solution (scratch), cannot be as easily bypassed by software.

As a developer though, it should be possible to have a program automatically go out and just copy a dvd based on vobs that actually get run. The black vob in either scheme, never gets run. So, any DVD that can be played can be copied, but the scratch solution is (I think) the most difficult for most users to get around.

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

I would actually like to try getting around it. As far as I know is will be just as easy to rip. When I rip a DVD mind you this is in the toatally legal sense. I use dvdshrink. you can use a reauthor setting to set which part of video you wish to extract, so you can simply start the extraction after the black point. It shoudl work the same on the scratched dvd.

Anyway the reason I would suggest a are 3 fold. One it makes the peron buying such a dvd raise an eybrow when they get a brand new dvd with a scratch on it. Two if you accidentally scratch the wrong part you have ruined a dvd. Third, and in my opinion and extremly important one. If you are like me and are creating films, not wedding videos, then you would be most likely using DL DVDs and scratching the outside will cause the CRC exception, but it will also ruin the video after the layer change. All in all I think the digital means will do the same thing, but without the added probelms.

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Excellent points! I still disagree that the software created errors would be as effective, but I do see your reasoning for wanting to do it that way.

I'd like to back up a bit and explore the original post in greater depth by questioning the wisdom of copy protecting wedding DVDs. I'll admit there are times you might need to copy protect some things, but a client's wedding DVDs?

My main reason for having stopped this practice is that hardly anyone purchased extra copies anyway, making the extra effort unprofitable. Secondly, the more copies out there, the more advertising I get. Thirdly, by copy protecting their DVDs, I pit my clients against me. That's not a good position.

I give non-exclusive rights to my wedding clients (and retain same) to do whatever they wish with their video. I offer original tapes at a reasonable fee and no longer copy protect their DVDs.

I think this is a better position than having a contract that restricts clients' rights and giving them protected DVDs which says two things - "I don't trust you." and "I want more money out of you."

The most valuable thing I can get from a client after doing their wedding, is their word of mouth advertising. No hope for future DVD copy sales is worth trading for that.

Posted 5 years ago #
Endeavor
Member

I agree completely. I've always told my clients that, although I own the right to use their footage for advertizing, etc., I don't have a problem with them making copies themselves. I also give 10 copies as part of the normal package anyway.

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

I would also have to agree copy protection on such a small scale is pointless. The number of people with the compute know how to copy a dvd are very small and you have a low chance of getting them as clients. If you do get them there is absolutly nothing you can do to stop the copying. It would be a waste of time and energy to do so. Maybe when you become large buisiness it might be useful. another thing you could do is start using DL discs if you are not already. People cannot fit the DVD on their normal 4.7 GB discs, adn they will get confused, and they won't even bother.

Posted 5 years ago #
jhumpir
Member

Hi guys thanks soooo much for all this valuable information. Well a lot of my customers need copies and they want me to do it for like few bucks. But I like this point the more of my dvd's out there it's more advertisement for me.

One more thing if my finished dvd need any change like a song or a name change do I have to convert the vob files to dvd before make any changes.

thanks a lot

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

I am assuming you want to retroactively make changes to your video? Normally I would suggest that you make changes in your original project on your NLE, but if you no loger have that project do this:

This will be the easiest thing you have ever done right here

rename the .VOB file to a .mpg Now you can make the changes in your NLE, or if the changes will not alter the length of the vidoe you may, mind you this is only a maybe, save the changes to the mpg and then rename the mpeg as a .VOB

Hope this helps.

Posted 5 years ago #
emarch
Member

The short answer is NO - there is no simple copy protection. With Linux or BSD or any OS that can read the device in raw format
it can read the disk image, so you get a copy of the sectors of data and no matter what byte pattern is on them you have them
all, and you can reverse the read and write the same byte pattern to the device and have a clone of the disk. As far as I know windows
do not allow RAW access to devices and interprets the data and file systems on the DVD's where as the RAW mode does not.

The bottom line is charge for the work you can do and and dont worry about copies, Whenever I make customers DVD's I usually
give them 3 copies using several different maufactures DVD's, I had TDK problems - So now I use SONY, MEMOREX, and IMATION
and havent had problems (yet).

Ed March
http://www.MarchDVD.com

Posted 5 years ago #
hank-okvideoguy
Member

While ThomasTyndan's post regarding renaming of vobs to mpg will work, he failed to note that quality will suffer to the point of being useless - especialy where motion, panning, etc. is involved. The reason is that you are taking a compressed file and recompressing it - not a good idea.

If you'll search these forums for similiar topics, you'll find I've posted a program and method of doing this that works without loss of quality (I'm in Florida now and not where I can look up the program name). The caveat is that you can cut the file up and reuse any or all parts and stick new parts in, but you cannot re-edit any of the previously compressed file without the quality hit.

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

There shouldn't be any quality loss. I am not talking about recompressing, I am talking about strictly renaming the file itself. so it were "example.VOB" then you would right click (on Windows) and choose rename and make it "example.MPG".. no recompression, no loss. Done!

There might be some audio stream issues, make usre there is ojnly one audio stream. but the video should be left in tact. The obvious problem with the method I posted above is that VOB are not strictly MPEG2s, but the video is strictly MPEG2, just not te audio, so one must be careful, the best thing to use to recompress and whatnot is probably Virtual Dub Mod.

Needless to say my method works without any quality loss.

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Thomas, I believe you're only batting 500 on that post.. there WILL be quality loss, because he asked..

One more thing if my finished dvd need any change like a song or a name change do I have to convert the vob files to dvd before make any changes.

At the begining of the topic, he stated he does wedding videos, so the name change he's referring to will likely be in the credits. If he feels this is likely to happen once in awhile, he might want to consider putting credits on a separate mpeg2 file. That way, he should be able to change the credits without adversely affecting the rest of the file and since you're essentially replacing the credits mpeg file with a new one, you won't lose anything there either.

As for the music - I haven't tried it, but it makes sense that you should be able to change the audio file without recompressing the video and therefore avoid the quality loss. I hadn't even thought about that - good point! I think Thomas earned every one of those "500" batting points! X-D

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

I must be missing somehing... At what point are we talking about recompressing the video?... and for that matter, at what point did This thread get hijacked?!?!

But seriosly, lets say he had some rolling credits, now assuming that the credits are just a black screen with white text, he should be able to simply rename the VOB to MPG and then make the necessary edits, when he re-renders, he doesn't have to change the bitrate at all. There would be no quality loss.

It might just be boggling my mind beacause I have the ever lovely Sony DVD-Architect, which only recompresses changed media... but I think my point should remain, there is no recompression, a VOB file IS an MPEG2 file. Now the compression of MPEG files are based on Bitrate, as long as the bitrate remains the same it would be as if you are doing a direct stream copy of the information for the majority of the video. Regardless, the point remains, always keep your project safely backed up, and ready for any last minute changes. As far as I know you can recompress as many times as you like and as long as you are not making changes to the bitrate you will not be getting any problems.

I dunno maybe I'm wrong, I'll give it a rest.

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

I dunno maybe I'm wrong, I'll give it a rest.

No, please don't do that - give it a "test"!

I use Encore and while I haven't specifically tried this method to change a credits screen, I have tried to change a regular video scene. It wasn't too bad while there wasn't a lot of movement (though it was noticably worse) but once a pan or any sort of movement occurred, it was terrible and no recompression was selected during the burn.

The deal is that compressed video doesn't have all the information any longer. All info considered non-essential, has been eliminated. When you change the video (even just the credits), something has to give becasue the "essential" info it had about the changed frames, no longer applies.

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

Hmm I'm still confused actually... I just did a test, I took a VOB file, messed arouns ith adding clips etc. Rendered the video to a new file, using the same specs as the original... I amctually ended up with a smaller, file, becasue I lost some audio tracks, no surprise there... but the video quality remained the same. There was no difference, except for the changes I had made. I then took the new VOB file and placed it into the original DVD project and boom everything worked. The changes I had made were intact, no quality loss, and the only problem I can imaging coming up is the fact that I was missing audio info, but that can be fixed using VirtualDubMod. Anyway I am using the following tools:

Vegas 6, DVD Architect 3, VirtualDubMod (for adding back inoriginal audio streams) Maybe they just handle the information better. Or maybe we are at a misunderstanding as to the process we are talking about. In theory I should be able to do this with anything...

I KNOW this works because I have used it before so splice in random clips into a movie as a practical joke. If you want, when I have time. I will make a short demo that I will post, showing that this works.

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

It appeared to work when i did it too, until i got it up on a bigger screen. Even then, it wasn't too bad until there was motion or panning, etc. Then the artifacts were pretty bad, at least not good enough for a wedding video where we usually have a bandwidth of at least 5.

This is a well known issue - that you can't edit an already compressed mpeg2 file without taking a hit on the quality. But if you've got a solution for it, as Ross Perot used to say, "I'm all ears" ! X-D

Posted 5 years ago #
ThomasTyndan
Member

Can you descirbe the artifacts?

Posted 5 years ago #
compusolver
Member

Thomas -

Nothing out of the ordinary, just the usual artifacts you get when you compress beyond the quality level that you should. Same artifacts you'll see watching some digitized movies on TV when there is movement.

Compress a normal video that has some movement and panning, etc. to a bit rate of about two and you'll see what I'm talking about.

..and yeah, this topic did get hijacked, didn't it?

Posted 5 years ago #
todd4000_1
Member

Sell the copyrights to the production. It puts money in your pocket and gets more of your video out there. Don't forget to advertise on your production. It can't hurt.

Posted 5 years ago #
jNice
Member

8-O

Super info on the dvd copy protection question, but could someone please make things a little simpler if possible.

Thanks,

J

Posted 5 years ago #
saltvideo
Member

You know last year I did a video for a school, as a joke I put on the cover of the
dvd "not responsible for damage illegal attempts to copy this disk may produce. I had somebody call me and want to know how they could correct the computer because they had made copies and now their computer would not work. I told them it was a joke but they were still hacked at me. I thought it was funny.

Michael

Posted 4 years ago #
flip43
Member

Sorry to come to this htread late but I agree with those who advised that trying to control duping wasn't worth the candle.Â We make our money on the main programmes, include five copies and sell any extras at little above cost.Â If people like the work enough to buy more they'll get played.

Posted 3 years ago #
AudioAmigo
Member

The problem any so called "XYZ kids" will have undercutting you is not so muchÂ in duplicating theÂ content, but in creating aÂ decent replication of the disc art. Videographers who create compelling disc art, (and who don't skimp by printing on cheap standard-grade inkjet printable media), willÂ present disc quality that can only be achieved by using the original artwork. So the results of any attempt to scan the original disc and reprint it will most likely be a disappointment to anyone who has seen the original set of discs.Â

I use Taiyo Yuden WaterShield Glossy DVD-R media exclusively for a look that impresses even the most discriminating of my clients. (Available at most online media dealers, including yours truly.

Â http://cdrecordingsoftware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=cdre&Category_Code=mediaÂ )

Edward

Posted 3 years ago #