A difficult decision...which NLE

31. zoobie
    Member

    

     composite1, perhaps if you install Windows Media Encoder, Premiere could use that to compress the video. This is how Media Studio Pro works...worth a shot

    It's hard to beat Vegas Pro's codecs...but there are some stand-alone programs that seem to work well, too

    Another world's first! - http://www.BuskerAlley.com - Busker HD on the web!
    In Production - Busker Alley - The Movie!
    Want to make a small fortune in videography? Start with a large fortune!

    Posted 2 years ago #

32. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Zoobie,

    Thanks for the heads up on WME. I'll check it out. BTW, your's and JediChick's avatars are distractingly attractive.

    H.Wolfgang Porter, Composite Media Producer
    Dreaded Enterprises Unlimited, Inc.
    http://www.dreadedenterprises.com

    Posted 2 years ago #

33. SargeHero
    Member

    

    Hello again Videomaker community

    Finally I transition to MAC OS and I can say that I'm extremely happy. I can run so many things at the same time and the OS rarely freezes. I wanted to mention that I install Windows XP on boothcamp and I also install Vegas Pro 8. You can actually use Vegas and its features, but sometimes Windows OS freezes when you import large project or something complicated.  Its a little bit unstable, it does not work efficiently and yes you can get virus even on a boothcamp Windows (Avast Antivirus identified one Trojan) Another thing is that Windows XP only identified 3 GB of RAM out of 4 GB of my MAC (I read that XP can only use 3 GB RAM. I guess Windows Vista can use more than 4 GB) and the dual processor was identified too. Also, you can use a PC mouse (with the right click and the scroll) on the MAC without any problems. I only installed Windows for Vegas and Visual Communicator, but is for emergencies only. I'm currently learning to edit in Premiere and a friend told me that if I know how to use Premiere, Final Cut will be much easier to learn. Also, definitely MAC OS is a lot better than Windows OS for hardcore projects and editing.

    The meaning of a movie are the characters, the life of the movie is the music, but the magic is in the editing.
    Luis O. Maymí
    Follow me on Twitter @lomaymi

    Posted 2 years ago #

34. LeanMeanGreenScreen
    Member

    

    I just have a quick question regarding Media Composer v3.5. I purchased a Dell XPS M1530 Laptop recently, and was wondering if it would be able to run MC. It is a Vista Home Premium system, with a 32 bit operating system. It has an Intel Core2 Duo CPU T9300 both running at 2.50GHZ. I also got the academic version of it, and it loaded up without any difficulty. I just wanted to make sure my computer could actually handle it before I start importing video.

    Posted 2 years ago #

35. brokenjack
    Member

    

    "Finally I transition to MAC OS and I can say that I'm extremely happy."

    I'm glad to hear you switched to FCP. I am a professional editor who works on an Avid DS Nitris. I use FCP when I'm not using the Avid. I have never had my computer crash or freeze with FCP (of course now it will because I made the statement). Don't waste your time learning Premiere if you know you are going to use FCP. That's just ridiculous, and you should question your friendship with someone who told you to learn a program to get ready to use another. If you want to learn FCP, head over to lynda.com and check out the FCP tutorials by Larry Jordan. He's great. A little dorky and buttoned up, but great. I don't want to start a Mac vs. PC debate, but I have been in the video/film biz for 20 years, and after using Windows for much of that time, I have decided that Windows is crap. Yep, I said it. After switching to Mac in 2006, I actually get work done, and more creatively, I might add. Being an editor, or any other artist for that matter, requires you to be CREATIVE. There are a lot of people who will tell you how powerful this is and how technically powerful that is, and all they do is sit around and tweak this or that and stand back to admire all their flashing lights and gizmos. You have to decide whether you want to be an engineer, or an artist. I choose the latter. Of course you need to be technically minded and know the tools to realize your ideas. That is why the Mac is used so much by artists. It bridges the gap between the tech and the art. The OS itself is inspirational. PC users will tell you all the time that Macs are overpriced, etc. etc. and yes they are expensive, but you get what you pay for. I'm not sure what kind of work you do, but do yourself a favor and learn Motion as well. I edit hundreds of commercials with tons of animated graphics with extremely tight deadlines. Motion is nothing short of the 2nd coming of Jesus for people who need to impress clients by yesterday.

    Posted 2 years ago #

36. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Broken,

    First off, you need to read the forum posting rules about using ALL-CAPS and BOLD lettering to make your statements.

    Second that stuff you're talking about Mac's being used by artists and PC's being used by engineers is a broken record and is also false.

    That you've found something that works for you is great. You like mac's, great. But your opinion is subjective. I've used mac's for years and don't like them for various reasons. However, I recognize that people are going to use what works best for them and I want to make sure that whatever they use, we can pool our resources and get the job done.

    This PC vs Mac debate is ridiculous. Be kind enough to give it a rest.

    Posted 2 years ago #

37. brokenjack
    Member

    

    I knew that would get under someone's skin. Don't get so angry, it's just that, my opinion. And yes, I hate to break it to you, but most opinions are subjective. That's what forums in the free world are all about aren't they? The sun will still rise tomorrow. I did not attack anyone personally. Ok sorry about the ALL-CAPS thing, you got me there, but policing peoples opinions? Come on. It just sounds more like you got offended. If the PC vs MAC debate is so ridiculous, why on earth are you perpetuating it by replying in defense.I don't care what people use, I was just supporting one person's decision to go the Mac route. And if the forum doesn't allow bold in the text, why does it say Allowed markup: strong at the bottom of my window.

    hmmm... after going back and reading your posts, it seems to me that in fact you have started this debate with your passive aggressiveness toward the Mac with your well placed jabs. You also offered up some subjective opinions of your own.

    And the debate continues

    Posted 2 years ago #

38. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Broken,

    A) Not angry.
    B) Couldn't care less about Mac's or PC's. Actually hate them both.
    C) You say you were 'just voicing your opinion' but to make a statement that suggests someone is 'not creative' because of the type of equipment they use is ridiculous.
    D) Read Cfulton's post on the FAQ's for writing forum threads.

    And please spare me your layman's psychological analysis of what you perceive passive- agressive speech is. What may 'seem' to have been started by me has only been an effort to keep balance in the conversations. Many of the readers who join the forums don't know 'poop from shineola' about the two platforms therefore I want to make sure they hear both sides. Also, if you've actually read my posts in these forums you would also know that I've never discouraged anyone from choosing one platform or another and always encourage them to find out for themselves. Lastly, everything that I have ever said about PC's and Mac's has come from years of direct usage either fully in one platform or working in concert.

    And you are also wrong about me 'policing' people's opinions. I called you out on your erroneous statement. In a debate there is point and counter point. Statements made must be supported by facts. You have yet to provide hard evidence. If you wish to do so, please start another thread.

    Posted 2 years ago #

39. film814
    Member

    

    Ha. Always funny to listen to people "debate" the Mac v. PC issue. Let's lay down some definitive standards we can all agree on.
    (1) Macs and PCs are both computers.
    (2) Phenomenal video and animation is edited and created on both.
    (3) Each individual is entitled to his own opinion as to which is best.
    (4) Because both are so different in many aspects, we cannot compare them and say positively that one is better than the other. (That's like saying apples are better than oranges. Ok. Yes. In apple pie, apples are better than oranges. But for making orange-juice, apples just won't work.)

    Professional filmmakers accomplish things of equal caliber on both Macs and PCs.

    Therefore, it is a worthless wast of digital breath to dispute over the definitive "better-ness" of one or the other.

    Goodnight.

    Jeremy

    Posted 2 years ago #

40. brokenjack
    Member

    

    Oh my! Welp anyways Sargehero, congrats on your purchase, you made a wise choice in my opinion

    Lighten up Francis

    Posted 2 years ago #

41. vanlam
    Member

    

    Good choice SargeHero. I love Vegas (And still use it w/ SoundForge for audio editing/mixing), but for more complicated projects, Final Cut Studio is a much better choice (Plus Motion and Color are amazing extras). 

    Two Cut Films
    http://www.twocutfilms.com

    Posted 2 years ago #

42. brokenjack
    Member

    

    Hey sargehero,

    I'm not sure what hardware you went with on your mac, but I just built a PC and loaded OS X on it just to see how well it would hold up in video editing. I am now running it as my main computer with Final Cut Studio. It is extremely stable, and I saved about $3000 extra bucks by not getting a Mac Pro. There is no IO card in it though.  It's a core i7 w/12GB DDR3 and a 1GB ATI 4870 vid card with dual monitors running at 1920 x 1080. I still cannot get over how well it handles 25 layers of 720p in Motion.

    Posted 2 years ago #

43. XTR-91
    Member

    

    Wow, this thread started a good six months ago. Considering that the poll is actually closed (never heard of one being before), I'd have to give Sony Vegas the edge with the right combination of price, features, and functionality. I'vehad little experience with Final Cut Pro and no experience with Adobe Premiere. Premiere seems very functionable, but outcosts Sony Vegas Pro 9 by nearly $200-$300. Final Cut Express (MSRP $300) is great if you're in the $1,200+ realm of purchasing Mac systems.

     

    Here's my take on the age-old Windows vs. Mac phenomena: Microsoft seems to be chasing after budget consumers and businesses with features that burst right through the doors. Apple seems to be implementing the 'high-quality' system that is designed to handle media and suit the needs of a fanatic who wants a good, stable, and less virus-prone system.

    Posted 2 years ago #

44. SargeHero
    Member

    

    Over this past months I have learn to use Premiere Pro and have edited several proyects. I started editing in Vegas Pro 8 and comparing it with Premiere I like Vegas a lot more. Vegas inter-phase is more user friendly than Premiere and from my experience is easier and more comfortable editing in Vegas. In Premiere you start with 3 video and audio tracks in the timeline (the video is above and the audio below), in Vegas you have a huge timeline with unlimited video and audio tracks rearrange any way you like (this is something I miss a lot) Another thing I miss are the markers and regions, which you could see the lines all over the timeline with an specific color (is use that a lot). In Premiere the markers are not that powerful, but they are still useful. Now Premiere have an incredible powerful tool that Vegas does not have, which is the "Dynamic Link". Using After Effects, Photoshop, Soundbooth and Encore along with Premiere you can make anything you desire and instantly see it in the other program. This is extremely useful in the editing process because you will never have to say "Sorry I cannot do that effect in Vegas" (this happen to me editing a short film) Despite my personal experience with Adobe and dynamic link my vote is still for Vegas Pro as my preferred NLE. Is a shame that they don't have it on Mac OS.

    Posted 2 years ago #

45. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Sarge,

    I currently use both adobe and sony product suites. Vegas/Acid/Soundforge for audio finishing and out to PC media format. Adobe for graphics, mographics, flash production and crossplatform collaboration in QT. Both suites have serious muscles in their own right's but have weaknesses that I use one or the other to counter. Soundbooth is a snazzy little program but gets stomped into a fine paste when compared to the soundforge/acid combo. Vegas and Premiere are both workhorses but when combined with their other components (i.e. premiere/photoshop/afx or Vegas/Acid/Soundforge) turn into other-worldly tools. I've used vegas since '07 and premiere since '99. Both are easy to learn and are reasonably priced (premiere in the bundle that is) but neither program alone is a game-changer in my eyes or experience.

    As far as Vegas being available for mac, you can hold your breath until FCP goes cross-platform while your at it. Not going to happen. Just like apple, sony makes computers too (Vaio anyone?) and just like apple are carving their own niche out of the market.

    Brokenjack,

    That rig you built is called a 'Hackintosh' and though I completely admire the 'spirit of building' you've exhibited, that thing is mad-illegal in the eyes of the mac-nazi's. I wouldn't post to the world that you've got one of those things up and running. One thing though, it is a testament to the fact that except for some lines of code, there is nothing different between mac's and pc's anymore except for the price and the hype. BTW, my name is not 'Francis', 'Surely'.

    Posted 2 years ago #

46. brokenjack
    Member

    

    Don't be too over dramatic. I wouldn't call that mad illegal. Robbing a bank is mad illegal. There is some gray area concerning the EULA. It states that the software can be loaded on apple-labeled hardware. Stickers are included with the OS. There is a huge number of people (including legislators) who believe that if you buy software, you can load it on anything you want. I don't think an apple lawsuit would hold up in court thus the wording of the EULA. I don't think the "apple nazis" will be showing up at my door anytime soon. Plus there is a whole fraternity of people who have broadcasted the fact they have done the same thing. Heck there is even a website dedicated to hackintoshes. Educational info should not be censored. Plus not everyone can do it. You have to know what you are doing. Milage varies from rig to rig. My rig happens to be one of the more compatible ones, and now overclocked to 3.6Ghz it's pretty sweet to say the least(yes I know, my engineering pc side has surfaced).  Your reference to "some lines of code" made me laugh a bit. Microsoft itself proved that it was all about software, not hardware. OS X is way different than Windows let me tell you. The hardware may be the same, but the experience is way different. Apple will probably do their best to make it more difficult to do this in future updates I'm sure.

    I guess I got the "Airplane" reference

    I'm not sure you got the "Stripes" reference

    Put it on you netflix queue, it's classic Murray.

    ....Wait a second, there are some people outside getting out of what looks like a giant apple on wheels, they all have on black mock turtlenecks and jeans.....Oh my god! there are swastikas burned into their foreheads! Tell my family I love th--------

     

     

     

    Posted 2 years ago #

47. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Brokenjack,

    You're the one who obviously has no sense of humor. And as usual, you take things completely out of context.

    I know what a EULA is.

    And you're right, 'You don't think'. Yeah, you can put the stickers on a 'Hack' but you try parading that thing into the Apple Store trying to get tech support.

    I also know there's a website dedicated to Hacks. I posted it here many months ago and I'm very much in favor of people building Hacks but until Apple unpuckers their stance on systems not built by them, I strongly recommend they keep a low profile about it. The guy who invented Napster thought what he had started was okay too until the big music corporations decided it wasn't. You let Apple get a bug up their backsides about Hacks and see how much the EULA they wrote with their lawyers will protect you.

    And stop trying to trade quips with me. You're not remotely funny and completely unarmed.

    Posted 2 years ago #

48. shippocaio
    Member

    

    Wow... I can feel the love in the air...

    BTW, u 2 guys are funny. =D

    Posted 2 years ago #

49. robGRAUERT
    Member

    

    how is a hackintosh not super illegal? 

    I don't know much about what you two are talking about because it just isn't something that interests me, but i'd assume a hackintosh falls under the category of piracy. You're stealing software. You get the OS when you buy a Mac, and if the software is on a PC, then they obviously didn't buy a Mac. Therefore, stolen. No?

    Rob Grauert, Jr
    http://www.robgrauert.com
    http://command-r.tumblr.com

    Posted 2 years ago #

50. brokenjack
    Member

    

    You're the person the kids love to prank call, because you keep picking up the phone. I never said you didn't know what a EULA was.

    Listen, I have no animosity what so ever toward compostit1. It's just a friendly neighborhood peeing contest. We all have our opinions and it's fun to spice them up sometimes with a colorful debate. Nobody was personally attacked, no kittens died, it's just two strong willed people having a go. You should see me with my best friend. You would think we were married.

    As to the software piracy issue. It is most definitely not. Apple sells their operating system standalone without the computer. It's called the snow leopard box set(which I bought), and comes with ilife and iwork for about $130. It's actually a pretty good deal. There is just some gray area whether or not it's legal to install it on whatever hardware you want, and that's a debate that's almost as fiery as the Mac vs. PC debate. Composite1 was right when he said the so-called Mac-nazis would disapprove. I can't stand the Mac nazis myself, and I know a few. Most of them don't really appreciate the unix underpinnings. I think it's up to the individual user to decide if it's ethical or not. No, I don't think it's right to sell hackintoshes, and you will obviously be under scrutiny, but I think it's OK for the computer hobbyist to mess around with it. I work for a large production company, and I do all my paid work on an Avid DS Nitris system. It's PC based, and other than the crashes(from the unity indexer I'm sure) I experience on a weekly basis, it's a decent professional platform to work on. I don't really talk about the DS since it's out of the realm to aquire for most users on this site, including myself. We have 3 of them at work, and we shoot a lot of redcam 4k and cinealta HD, footage, so it's nice to work with that footage in so called real-time.

    Happy Holidays folks...get out there and make some stellar video.

    Posted 2 years ago #

51. tjtyrrell
    Member

    

    My preference is Adobe Premier because of the massive integration of the entire Adobe suite (as others have said)! And it only gets better as the Adobe Suites progress (curses Adobe for holding back awesome features to make you buy the next round of CS, but it's good business and I'd rather have 10 features done REALLY well then 150 new half-hearted features)... So anyway

    I've also used Final Cut and think it's an incredible piece of software for a Mac (I am, however, a PC user, gasp)... So if you have a Mac I would have a hard time suggesting between the two and would make that decision based on Finances (since I normally buy the entire Adobe Suite it's only natural for me to use Premier)... As far as integration, FC is great as well (and getting better) and also connects to Apples version of AfterEffects (Motion, which is also a great piece of software).

    Between those two, it's a personal preference (I only say that now, a few years ago I would say Final Cut Pro, hands down).

    I've only used Vegas a few times years ago and wasn't impressed. But at the same time I wasn't impressed with Adobe's Premier (before "Pro)... So I wouldn't be one to say anything good or bad about Vegas (and it was Vegas' cheap version)...

    There are a lot of forums asking the same thing you are (Google "vegas vs premier vs finalcut")... At this point you probably need to look at these three things:

    Personal History: Which company have you had the best experience with? Are you proud to be an Apple owner? Love your Adobe Suite? Adore your Sony Vaio? A company with a good history is very interested in keeping you as a customer and should continue to create content you love.

    Personal Finances:
    Final Cut Suite: $999 http://bit.ly/73glHp
    Adobe Video Suite: $1500 (but includes Photoshop, Illustrater) http://bit.ly/7XadpH
    Vegas Pro: $600 http://bit.ly/6166p9

    Not totally a fair cost comparison, I only chose those versions because I am an all or nothing kind of guy. Adobe and Final Cut both have cheaper versions that would do the job, but what is $1500ish when you are serious about your craft? You'd spend over $4k for a car, so ride a bike for a while until you have the money ;)... So as mentioned before, how much money do you have and how much software do you need?

    Personal Preference: This, at this point, is the most important. See if you can get your hands on a few demos. I believe all three companies offer 30 day trials. I ALWAYS recommend trial software as it allows you to get your feet wet. At the same time I would also suggest registering with Lynda.com for a few months and use the tutorials for each software (for example, get a 30 day trial of Premier, take the Lynda.com tutorials for Premier... Once that trial expires, do the same thing for Final Cut, then Vegas)... Get dirty! It's the only way YOU will personally be satisfied.

    For example, I like a lot of movies, a lot of movies I like are not popular and not all of my friends like them. So if I were to rely solely on my friends there would be a lot of movies I would miss... I rent the movies if I am unsure and at that point still haven't committed to a purchase!

    I hope this all makes sense!

    Good luck!

    TJ

    Check out this incredible site that lets you make your videos available for rent or purchase to help you make money for your craft.
    http://vidli.com/SE051WW

    Posted 2 years ago #

52. 8string
    Member

    

    jumping in late:

    My curiousity in all this is that I'm ramping up for some better quality production, using a new Panasonic HMC150, and have been both a Windows and Mac user for over two decades. My MacBook Pro is good enough to run FCP, but only supports 2GB RAM and I don't particularly want to spend another $2500 to $3k to buy a MacP. I'm at the cusp of buying into either (or both) editing worlds (Mac or Win7 as base OS). Why? Because I bought a wonderful 6 GB RAM, Quad  core HP Desktop for under $600 (wish I could buy a MPro for that!) for some software development work. So I would really like to take advantage of that quad core and large RAM for that particularly processor intensive AVCHD format. Given that, are any of you Windows users running a package that doesn't crash on Windows7? It seems that many of the packages I've tried to load don't yet support it (Panasonic software shipping in box does not support Win7, won't even install). I'd love to be rendering at full bore with lots of cores and huge RAM use.

    I don't want to spend $1000 on software for both systems, but is there a decent reason to run some specific software that takes advantage of Windows7 processing on the quad cores and then move it to the Mac for better editing? Or is all this just overkill? Maybe just load up the Windows machine and learn to use a total package on that? Sell it and splurge on a MacPro on Ebay so I have less hardware incompatabilities?

    My worry is that my experience with Windows in general, and why I'm on the Mac in the first place, is that Windows has always been much more problematic for me in getting accessories to work right, and in unison. After trying in vain for weeks to get my Sony video camera to work right with my Windows machine (three years ago), I just went out, bought the Mac and it all worked. I've never had a problem getting an accessory to work with my Mac, (try getting Protools to run on either machine and you'll know what I'm describing) and that is not the case with previous versions of MS, whether XP or Vista. Win7 seems better, but...

    Thanks for any thoughts, in advance. This thread has been very edutaining, and I always chuckle when the Mac vs. PC arguement comes up. I remind everyone, it's just a tool! I like my screwdrivers too, but could you imagine if there were as much debate about which screwdriver to use! I'll use the best tool for the job, but it seems that in this case, folks are using both to do professional quality work.

     

     

    Posted 2 years ago #

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