http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Videomaker Community Forums » Tag: HD tape - Recent Posts en Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:36:26 +0000 http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52313 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:34:37 +0000 HDVideoPro 52313@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>@jkidder - No affiliation, I'm just an HDV aficionado (freak) as in HDV Video Professional - But I do enjoy their magazine. I'm involved in many different levels of using video and photography in every way from charity volunteer work to product development for HD screen manufacturers. I like the different aspects both magazines seem to cover, though - as they (Videomaker and HDVideoPro) are the first two I reach for.</p> <p> </p> <p>Video for me me is just a chance to enjoy both technology and artistry at the same time :)</p> <p>on of the aspects of this publication I especially like is the voice of the "do-it-yourself" independent filmmakers that will be appearing in future articles - ever wondered if you could make your own movie? Get ready to be inspired!  </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52219 Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:58:27 +0000 jkidder 52219@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>@HDVideoPro - are you a representative for the magazine?</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52207 Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:35:14 +0000 HDVideoPro 52207@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Comp1 - no link - just some font stuff that showed up that wasn't visible (remove if you want)</p> <p>Also - although reusing tapes is not recommended (by manufacturers)  - I have had great success re-recording over a dozen times per tape on the Digital Master series Sony tapes with no loss of resolution. Apparently when recording SD on SD tapes ghosting or pixilation was appearing after 6 uses - maybe it has something to do with the huge amount of information I'm recording? (1080 24p) but I don't know for sure. </p> <p> . . . of course I would recommend using a new tape when filming "one take only" type materiel - I reuse tapes (for example) when shooting models for promotional video and photography (I use frame grabs for portfolio photos) but, use new tapes when filming documentary material.</p> <p>BUT, on the other hand - you would only know if a tape doesn't have a dropout when you record the entire tape and review? So I guess their are a lot of things to consider!</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52164 Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:21:27 +0000 composite1 52164@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p><em>"The difference in price is only because some actually pay it."</em></p> <p>Grinner,</p> <p>I read you loud and clear on that one. I've used primarily Panasonic Professional Mini-DV tape since '03 and the only drop-outs I've ever encountered were when I missed scheduled head cleanings or had dramatic temperature changes. Those instances happen very rarely. I do notice a miniscule difference between the pro grade tape and the consumer stuff, but it's not enough to stop me from pulling an emergency pack off the shelf of the local 'S-Mart'.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52161 Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:45:24 +0000 grinner 52161@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> Sounds like a sales pitch. The difference in price is only because some actually pay it. It's not unlike bottled water vs tap water... it's the same stuff. It's as easy as using and compairing the two, really. </p> <p>Like I said, I only purchased HDV tape int he beginning when I mistakenly thought I had to. Now that I know I don't, well, I don't. I simply lay down 1s and 0s on a tape that costs less and can be purchased at Sam's. ;) I get no more dropouts whatsoever than when buying tapes stock that costs much more.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52127 Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:38:44 +0000 composite1 52127@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>HD,</p> <p>Yep, that's pretty technical. BTW, what was the info at the bottom you tried to post?</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-52123 Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:17:26 +0000 HDVideoPro 52123@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>OKAY, if you really want to get technical - this is how it works: </p> <p>Digital tape is produced in long rolls or "spools" about 10 - 20 ft across in length - yes this would make all the tape the same in theory - EXCEPT - It's not. Manufacturing of said tape is produced in a clean room environment where the air particle tolerance is usually measured in microns (a unit of length equal to 1 millionth of a meter or .00039 of an inch) - Digital Master for example is cut from the center-most part of the spool where the least amount of particulate matter can settle on the product. Since particles cause "drop-outs" or "dropped frames" - this is why a higher price is charged - and gladly paid by professionals.&lt;span style="font-family: Microsoft Sans Serif;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt; </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51877 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:13:47 +0000 camguy 51877@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Thanks to all for your cogent input.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51374 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:11:05 +0000 Jaimie 51374@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>I think the previous posts do not completely address the HD vs SD tape issue.  Digital recorders/players are not like their old analog (i.e.VHS) counterparts.  Quality does not degrade gracefully, instead it is either good enough or it is not.</p> <p>The big deal with HD vs SD tape is dropouts or tiny gaps in the recordable layer of the tape where nothing is recorded.  An HDV signal recorded on the cheapest SD tape will be indistiguishable for one recorded on the best HD tape as long as the SD tape has no gaps causing drop outs.  That is a very important caveat because when you buy HDV tape you are buying fewer dropouts.</p> <p>Dropouts are particularly bad in the HDV world because the compression used is extremely fragile.  That is, a tiny dropout that would go unnoticed in analog, may cause a few lines of pixelization in SD (MPEG 2) will cause one or more seconds of lost video in HDV.   But, as long as you don't get a droupout, SD tape will look exactly as good as HD tape.</p> <p>So, your decision as to which tape to buy shouldn't be based on picture quality, but on the importance of the content.  If missing a few seconds now and then is ok, don't waste your money on expensive tapes.  But, as in my case, I sell the video so I use the HDV tapes and two or three cameras.  I can't let $100 or so in tape savings ruin a multi thousand dollar shoot.</p> <p>As a benchmark, my experience is that with Sony tapes and Sony cameras I get maybe 5 very noticeable dropouts in 50 hours of recording HDV on SD tapes, maybe 1 dropout in 50 hours of HDV tape and no dropouts so far after over 100 hours on Digital Master tape.  When I shot SD on SD tape, I don't recall dropouts being a problem.        </p> <p>OK, for the purists, there is the difference in signal to noise ratio between different types of tapes.  But I did not mention this as it is no longer an issue with modern cameras and tapes.</p> <p>That's my two cents worth,</p> <p>Regards,</p> <p>Jaimie</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51371 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:40:29 +0000 composite1 51371@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>MSK,</p> <p>Yeah you get more data input with HDV tape than standard MiniDV tape. However, as Grinner mentioned they are exactly the same size. To prevent dropouts on MiniDV or any other tape, keep your heads clean with regular maintenance and do your best to keep condensation out of the tape compartment. Once moisture gets in there you're going to have drop outs whether you use HDV tape or not.</p> <p>I do recommend you use pro grade tape only for serious shooting. Panasonic pro MiniDV tape goes for about $2.75 to $3.50 at B&amp;H. Other brands like Sony, JVC and Maxell are also in that neighborhood. HDV tape runs in the $6 - $9 range. I'm a 720p shooter like yourself and the footage comes out just fine on standard MiniDV tape. I've shot with HDV tape and it looked good but not an extra $3 - $6 per tape good.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51290 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:34:55 +0000 grinner 51290@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> for the record, FCP cannot increase the quality of the source. You can up rez it and twaek colors but it in no way adds information or reduces compression.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51283 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:21:30 +0000 blindeye 51283@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Final Cut Studio has the ability to upgrade your SD footage to a bit higher quality, but why by an HD camcorder if you aren't interested in HD?  </p> <p>YES  there is a definite difference in the quality of tape in an HD camcorder.  I was shooting for our tv show, and accidentally put an SD tape in instead of an HD tape (we run with 5 camcorders of different quality for reality).  The quality was no better than our SD camcorder quality.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51280 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:23:31 +0000 birdcat 51280@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>While I cannot say for certain based on firsthand knowledge, I have personally heard those who are experts in their fields (Douglas Spotted Eagle and John Rofrano) expound on the better quality of the tapes and the fact that they do use the Sony DVM HDV tapes (about $8-$9 each at B&amp;H).</p> <p>Also, regardless of what tape you use, you should pretty much stick to the same brand each time, or at very least, stay with the same type of lubricant (wet or dry) as different brands use different types.</p> <p>Also, it is a good idea NOT to reuse tapes.</p> <p> </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51267 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:31:51 +0000 grinner 51267@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> No. HDV cassets are the exact same as miniDV, on the scope or on the screen. There is absolutly no reason to pay extra for them. I buy my stock at Sam's. MiniDV. I have never shot DV with my camera.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51263 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:08:32 +0000 Gocycle 51263@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> In theory, HD tape is packed dense to prevent a dropout that is a momentary freeze in the HDV mode.   </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51256 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:21:46 +0000 mskvideo 51256@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Um, sorry, that would, of course, be "HD tape."</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-tape#post-51255 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:16:44 +0000 mskvideo 51255@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Is buying "HD" tape (MiniDV) necessary to shoot HD video?  I never have, and shoot 720p.  Occaisionally a client will have a problem, but that's the exception to the rule.  If HD tap isn't necessary, what are the advantages?  if necessary, why?</p> <p>Thanks.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-40353 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:18:35 +0000 robinvid 40353@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Hi other Robs, </p> <p> Although it is on the expensive side, geared towards the professional market, Edirol has just come out with the F-1 Video hard drive recorder.  I am going to try one out, hopefully with a Sony EX1 and a couple of older DVCAMS that we have.  It takes firewire in and records directly to a hard drive and gives two additional XLR inputs for recording two channels of uncompressed audio that are synced to your video.  These audio channels are in addition to whatever audio gets recorded through the firewire (which is compressed audio).  It records in HDV or SD.  Don't know much more than that about it at this point, but it is just under 3 grand. It certainly eliminates tape capture and gives a better quality audio recording.  By the way;  Robs Rule</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38573 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:16:22 +0000 robGRAUERT 38573@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> yea, i'd rather just a get a firestore if I got an HDV camera. Then I could have the benefits of that work flow. I hate capturing tapes. </p> <p> </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38547 Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:35:10 +0000 ralck 38547@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p>Robgaruert,</p> <p>You might want to also consider something like a Zoom H4 player.  It's a separate audio recorder and has 4 XLR inputs.  I've never used one, but heard a lot of good things about them.  I think I saw it on B&amp;H for about 300, so it might be cheaper than getting a firestore.</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38543 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:35:25 +0000 robGRAUERT 38543@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> robinleeedwards,</p> <p> Thanks for the input. I was hoping that shooting SD right away would be just as good as shooting HDV, editing HDV, and exporting SD. I guess not though. Either way, it saves me time, effort and money. So thank you.</p> <p> And to your last comment about the audio, I've heard that recording HDV to tape sacrifices audio quality a bit to make room for the HDV image. I don't know the engineering behind it though. Apparently recording to a hard drive is the solution to having better audio quality though.</p> <p> Thanks.</p> <p> </p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38495 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:17:36 +0000 robinleeedwardsyahoocom 38495@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> Hi Rob:</p> <p>I've got the HX-A1 and shoot HDV on regular blue sony dv tapes, not the "spensive" ones. Never a problem in dozens of tapes. Notice that the stores are not even stocking the HD tapes as much as they did??</p> <p>Consider shooting and editing in HDV and then down-converting afterwards to SD for export. Here's what I know from experience, Green-screen work is so much better in HDV than SD (sampling), Skin tone, and sky tone and blowouts are all superior.</p> <p>One negative I've read, but haven't experienced is that audio is better (compression) on SD than HDV. Go figure.</p> <p>Robin Edwards</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38491 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:35:55 +0000 cadaver 38491@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> hi,</p> <p>what i heard is that,</p> <p>HDV to HDV will not be the same as the HDV to DV, but the image quality of the (HDV TO DV ) will be mutch better than a average DV cam</p> http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/hd-camera-shooting-sd-or-down-convert-during-import#post-38482 Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:21:48 +0000 robGRAUERT 38482@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <p> Hey Guy,</p> <p> I'm thinking about getting a HDV camera since they're cheaper and I want to down-convert to SD right away anyway. It makes for very nice SD video and HDV is kind of buggy anyway...</p> <p> I'm looking at the Canon A1. Does anyone know if there is a difference between recording SD right away and recording onto HD tape and then down-converting on the import? If recording SD will give me the same results as recording HD and then down-converting, I can save myself money from buying the more expensive HD tapes and a new tape deck (I'm not a fan of using cameras as decks.) </p> <p> Thanks,</p> <p> Rob G. </p>