Videomaker Community Forums » Forum: Video Formats

Videomaker Community Forums » Forum: Video Formats - Recent Posts http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Videomaker Community Forums » Forum: Video Formats - Recent Posts en Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:35:59 +0000 Jaimie on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74913 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:17:10 +0000 Jaimie 74913@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ WOW! You're a genius at restoration! Those have to be better quality than the original VHS ever was. That is really excellent work. trushar30: The RT.X2, in my opinion, made HD editing really possible for the first time on a PC. It was a fairly complicated thing to use, but Matrox offered incredibly good customer service and timely upgrades. Unfortunately, the card apparently is not suitable for 64 bit Win7 systems. Matrox did offer a 64 bit software load, but it did not include the large number of very fine effects and presets that the original load included. According to their CS forum, the new PPRO offered the ability to do the same thing without their effects. They missed the boat on that. True, it is possible to duplicate the effects, but not nearly as convenient as the Matrox software. That's important for me because everything is about ease and speed. If I can click one button and get an effect, that's what I want. Oh well, it's no use crying over old software. JC Tasana Studios on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74910 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:13:54 +0000 Tasana Studios 74910@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Some really excellent advice, and as you can see from the advice there is really no way to make better what is not there. In the 1990's the son of a studio owner/producer from Texas lived in this area, he made 4 short features that he sent back to his dad to get professional edited and produced. That son now owns his own company. But to continue. He made several copies of the shorts, over time through fire, flood, mold and misuse it was believe ALL of the were lost or destroyed. Even the master tapes were destroyed. I sat out on an epic adventure to find all four copies, and low and behold I did, under beds and on unlabeled VHS tapes. I spent MONTHS capturing them to my computer and doing all I could to enhance them. One tape was so badly damaged it had to be disassembled and "unfolded" to capture another was covered with mold, I soaked it in Dawn dish-washing liquid, unwound it by hand in the liquid and rinsed it in cold water then left it in a dehumidifier for 4 weeks. I captured it. In the end I spent about 6 months on the project. Was it worth it? See for yourself...below But yes, these were the ONLY existing copies of a work that would have been forever lost. The producer/director released the works to me for nonprofit use. But all ended up with DVD's from them. I use a Analog capture card with every feature I can to enhance them, I have a DVD/VCR connected it to. I then bring the digital file into my video editing software to scrub them, but if the information is not there is just is not there, in several cases the audio was destroyed and I had to "add back" what might have been there. In the end the project came out as good as one can hope. But for old VHS tapes their is NO way to do it unless you use EarlC method VHS to DVD that is cost effective. Every other way is time consuming and cost counter productive to make money off of. Here are the 4 finished VHS to Digital Captures with about 6 months of enhancements. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0jF0r5BYs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0jF0r5BYs</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBaTniMjceQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBaTniMjceQ</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiUVOoekdgY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiUVOoekdgY</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTznHgCMxlw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTznHgCMxlw</a> The last one is still uploading, I never had it up. trushar30 on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74907 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 08:19:23 +0000 trushar30 74907@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Earl, All, I agree, VHS to HD is a not a great idea. These videos are philosophical lectures and could benifit largely within our vast family. I want to enhance them, and it does not have to be in HD, just want to get some color correction, cut down audio noise to be able to hear clearly. These videos are from early 80's. This is the reason I want to process the videos, then make DVDs. If the video quality was not degraded, all the suggestions as to going from VHS to DVD using computer or VCR/DVD combo make sense. Thanks for all comments...keep it going. I am learning from the pros like you! birdcat on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74904 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 03:48:56 +0000 birdcat 74904@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ As Earl said, lots of pain going from SD to HD, especially from VHS source. There is a package called Instant HD (<a href="http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-instant-hd/http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-instant-hd/">http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-instant-hd/</a>) from Red Giant that can help but bottom line is you cannot create data accurately where none existed before. As far as what you're doing, you might want to just buy a combo VCR/DVD recorder (I got one by Sony at Costco for $100) which copies VHS tapes to DVDs by just a button click and finalize. Not perfect but saved me a huge amount of time. EarlC on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74890 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:42:40 +0000 EarlC 74890@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Trushar, I'm personally not so sure that converting VHS sources to HD is a good choice/decision. I think you're taking on a LOT more aggravation and trouble by doing so. I personally convert my VHS resources to DVD after first making .mov files of them after importing. Many people for whom I've converted VHS resources have home entertainment systems with VHS and/or DVD players that uprez them with a decent result on their big screen TVs. I personally think that attempting to go from a basic VHS resolution or quality then digitally manipulating the files by ANY means or method in order to render it a HD file is often going to result in a lesser quality rather than greater quality video. trushar30 on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74888 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:44:21 +0000 trushar30 74888@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Thank you very much Jaimie, Eric and Don. I just purchased Adobe Premier Production.. It's in the mail.. waiting for it. Jaimie, I did not know what RT.x2 was, I looked it up, and found a great capture device, the devices that I have tried are from Bestbuy with RCA-to-USB connections. This would improve the capture quality a lot. I will buy one(Matrox MXO2 Mini, or similar) and try it. Once it arrives, I will try to edit each VHS one by one and save it as mp4 or mpeg2 in HD format. Thanks again! Don on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74880 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:30:20 +0000 Don 74880@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I did this using a cheap $8.00 garage sale sony camcorder. The sony digital 8 trv with vcr passthrough function and firewire... I played the tapes in a regular vcr, sent the video into the camcorder with the camcorders rca/svideo jacks... then passed through to my mac by firewire, used imovie to clean up the video quality then sent to idvd... a very time consuming process... with hundreds of videos... you can expect 2-4 hours of playback, and dvd burning for each hour of footage. EarlC on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74876 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:20:59 +0000 EarlC 74876@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ If the content has commercial value and you want to repurpose it for sales the ONLY available route is some aspect of the FIRST of Jaimie's approaches. If the ONLY intent is to preserve for yourself and perhaps SHARE here or there, then the second approach makes much more sense ... acquire a VHS-to-DVD recordable deck and make direct copies with no editing or enhancement. The middle of the road, if there is one, would be to acquire some kind of processor unit that would allow you to pass through the VHS en route to the editor or recorder and boost the color or signal strength somewhat. With these "proc-amp" units however, usually, LESS is more and a light touch will give better results than overdoing it. There's a definite law of diminishing returns with heavy-handed processing. Jaimie on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74874 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:59:26 +0000 Jaimie 74874@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ It seems like this would be easy to do, but it wasn't for me. My basic idea was to load the VHS content into PPRO, fix it up as best I could and save it on DVDs. Problem 1: Somewhere along the line of upgrading my editing equipment I lost the ability to input analog video. I ended up digging up an old editor with an RT.X2 card and used it to capture the analog in an HD format. An alternate solution was to use a camcorder as an analog to digital converter. I found it was easier to work in After Effects because I could run the Red Giant Denoiser and their up rezing software against the file. Beware, denoising takes a long time so might not want to do it. After that, I used the levels, color correction and sharpening effects to raise contrast, saturation and sharpness. When it was a good as I could get it, I sent the file to Encore and burned it to a DVD. While the DVD was better than the original, it was a lot of work and took almost 10 times the length of the tape. Since I had about 27 hours of tape to convert, I took an easier route. I connected the output of the VHS player to the input of a DVD recorder and copied the tapes directly to DVDs. The results were not quite as good as the editing route, but were a lot faster. Jaimie vid-e-o-man on "Best format for 2 hour + Video" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/best-format-for-2-hour-video#post-74860 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:01:06 +0000 vid-e-o-man 74860@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/  Omar, if you want to keep the video in HD you will only get about 20 minutes on a single layer DVD (only playable in Bluray or PS3), double layer DVD about twice the amount. If you are going to be using a bluray player why not record to a bluray disc (25 Gb). This will give great viewing but you will need a bluray burner. Hope this helps. Tasana Studios on "Best format for 2 hour + Video" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/best-format-for-2-hour-video#post-74821 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:48:24 +0000 Tasana Studios 74821@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I have yet to be able to compress 2 hours onto 1 DVD and not make major sacrifices in quality. Here is my formula. 40 Minutes or Less, Leave in MTS format and create a AVCHD (Mind you not playable in all DVD players, but in all Blu-Ray. 40+ Minutes MPEG2 Video compressed to 720 at 60FPS. And sacrifice the audio codec for the most compressed you can. I can get 80 minutes with acceptable quality, but over 80 minutes I have always had to goto another DVD. If I had the two hour production that you do, I would do 2 DVD's, and go from the most compressed audio I could since it is not music. Omar Rafik on "Best format for 2 hour + Video" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/best-format-for-2-hour-video#post-74819 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:22:13 +0000 Omar Rafik 74819@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ OK, so I am a photographer and have recently started working with video, I have a Cannon Xf100 and a 5DM2. I shot a prayer service and was intially planning to create a 5 min clip with excerpts of all the sermons and speeches, but the pastors were so passionate, I ended up with a 2 hour video. I edit in FCPX and would like to keep the video in HD, but the file size ended up something like 19 GB, so I hope this is not a dumb question but, what format should I use to keep the quality but still get it on 1 DVD? Or is not possible? Thanks Omar trushar30 on "How to enhance and preserve old video on VHS?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/how-to-enhance-and-preserve-old-video-on-vhs#post-74568 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:51:20 +0000 trushar30 74568@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I have hundreds of VHS with videos of very valuable lectures. I want to capture it, enhance it, as it has degredated over last 25-30 yrs. The videos have lost colors, have disturbance in audio, I want to correct all deficiencies and preserve it for generations to come. What is the best hardware as well as software to do this? What is the best format to preserve this? constantinos on "Analog Video Users Today" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/analog-video-users-today#post-74512 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:12:17 +0000 constantinos 74512@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ You should not forget old "loves". I use it sometimes. Jennifer O'Rourke on "Analog Video Users Today" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/analog-video-users-today#post-74505 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:32:33 +0000 Jennifer O'Rourke 74505@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Interesting question, Pete, I'd be curious to know the answer, too. I was just telling a co-worker about a recent trip to San Francisco where I saw two women at a tourist event shooting video. One was using an iPad - very awkward but what a viewfinder! The other was using an old Hi8 camcorder with a long eyepeice and no viewfinder [in my opinion, eyepeices are much better than the LCD flip-outs for fine-tune focusing.] It was interesting to see both of them shooting on technology that was decades different from each other, and both seemed content with how they captured their footage. Most likely the Videomaker readers are going to be using more current technology, due to their desire to learn about the latest, but it doesn't mean they don't have or use these old formats at some time or another. Like "Composite 1" noted above, we keep one of each format here at the office in case we have a need to convert old footage. I was at a press event recently where Sony announced they are no longer going to manufacture any tape-based cameras anymore, even though some might still be popular. Retail sellers of video tape tell us that tape is still selling well, but sales have dwindled at bit. VHS tape can still be found in drugstores and some electronics stores. Don on "the future of Blu-ray" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/the-future-of-blu-ray#post-74488 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:41:18 +0000 Don 74488@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I never bough into blue ray and never regretted it. Streaming is the way..and it gets better and easier every year. composite1 on "the future of Blu-ray" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/the-future-of-blu-ray#post-74486 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:27:04 +0000 composite1 74486@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Personally, I'm disappointed with Blu-Ray. I actually preferred HDVD as the content creators back then took advantage of its capabilities and you got a lot of material on a disc. With Blu-Ray it's like was mentioned all they seemed to do was take a large format disc and treat it like a VHS. You barely see any content on them unless you pay an exorbitant amount of money and even then, it's nothing like you would think. Plus, much of the additional content isn't HD anyway which is also a gip. You can tell they are getting ready to phase it out because blu-ray player prices are falling significantly. There is hype about 'Violet Ray' tech, but I'm not excited about it because they aren't going to do anything different than what they did with blu-ray. I actually prefer DVD over blu-ray as it is less expensive and when they don't short you on content, the experience is still satisfying. Ever watch the full four disc set of "Kingdom of Heaven" the Director's cut? I have. Several times.... I agree though. Everything is headed toward streaming. Right now, pirates have paved the way for how the tech works, content will be seen and get monetized which is why the massive effort to get them out of the picture is underway. Sad though, as hollywood and the big networks already had the means and money to have gotten things going sooner but they were still trying to drag their old models of doing things into the new medium. The just don't understand that early on, nobody wants to watch 'stacked ads' on-line or on their mobile devices. The pirates figured that out a long time ago. composite1 on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74484 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:56:17 +0000 composite1 74484@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Peter, VHS is a great format to learn on. It's cheap and you can burn through it without pulling your hair out. Learning how best to light it and record sound within its limitations will be a big help when you move onto higher-end formats. But, as Earl mentioned forget VHS as a potentially pro format. It was used for news inserts for a time but only when there wasn't a U-matic, betacam or pro high-8 tape available. It was an excellent consumer format for distribution of film and television products and VHS is the reason we have the 'home video entertainment' industry. Once the porn guys figured out they could put their work directly onto VHS and make direct profits, it wasn't long before Hollywood took noticed and followed suit. VHS paved the way for Lazer Disc, which paved the way for Video CD, then DVD, HDVD and Blu-Ray Discs. So feel free to play with your existing VHS stock. Just be advised that it will eventually break down as you shoot it and play it back. Keep your camera and player heads clean so you can get the most out of it. composite1 on "Analog Video Users Today" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/analog-video-users-today#post-74483 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:43:11 +0000 composite1 74483@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I've still got a digital high-8 camera mainly for playback of archived tapes. I haven't shot anything with it since 2002. Other than that all my rigs are digital tape or use flash media. Peter Rose on "Analog Video Users Today" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/analog-video-users-today#post-74477 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 03:28:08 +0000 Peter Rose 74477@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ With about 90,000 members to Videomaker, I am very curious as to how many of us are still using analog camcorders (VHS, VHS-C, S-VHS-C, 8mm, Hi-8, etc.). I find it hard to believe that all of the Videomaker members are ALL into digital only. I would like to have feedback from some analog members who still enjoy using this format vs digital (or maybe use both). If everyone was shooting digital only, then there would be no market for analog tapes. However, there are many outlets selling lots of analog tapes, including some of the camcorder manufacturers themselves. Any comments ad feedback, please? Thanks folks. Peter Rose on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74470 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 17:41:26 +0000 Peter Rose 74470@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Thanks again Earl and thank you Mike for your input. I will check-out that Community Cable aspect - could be an okay experience for me. Meanwhile, I will keep using my GR-60U in VHS-C in order to keep improving my technique, composition, etc. I have lots of VHS-C tape to play with. Peter VidProMike on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74469 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:19:03 +0000 VidProMike 74469@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Peter - Your community's public access (cable TV) operation may offer access to high-quality digital cams and editing. Likely be restrictions for "personal use," but worth looking into for training and new experiences. Mike EarlC on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74468 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:02:31 +0000 EarlC 74468@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ This CAN be an expensive hobby (or more) Peter, but if you really, REALLY want to do some video with an eye on it being more than your own home brew ... producing stuff that can (or WILL) be distributed over the channels ... you CAN do so fairly economically. Again, depending on your immediate goals and expectations, so far as "shooting" video goes, you can be doing that for well under $1K US, although specifically for network distribution might not yet be included in that range. I suspect it will be acquiring something in the editing department that is also able to work with the footage a new camera would produce in one of the many formats (a computer and/or editing program(s)) that will cost you a bit more. Video is a GREAT tool for personal, creative and professional-level development. Obviously, if you've had a VHS or VHS-C camcorder and used it, you're a bit interested if not hooked. Where there's a will there's a way, even financially, I suspect ;-) Peter Rose on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74465 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:59:36 +0000 Peter Rose 74465@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ Thank you for your candid and straightforward reply, Earl. I really appreciate it. It looks like I will have to save-up some good old pension cash, over time, and get a digital rig in the future. Pete EarlC on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74464 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 23:11:23 +0000 EarlC 74464@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I very seriously doubt VHS of any type would be acceptable by a studio, PBS or TVO. Even when VHS was a more popular consumer format it was not acceptable to these places over U-Matic or the Betacam formats, S-VHS and then, of course, digital. Nothing wrong with utilizing VHS or the compact VHS (VHS-C) for personal use, I suppose, if that's your ONLY option, but the tape simply doesn't hold up to long-term storage nor multi-pass editing, shredding off bits with each pas as you digitize it or try to work from the original masters. VHS never was a preferred professional format, really, and certainly wouldn't be accepted now. The ONLY possible exception is if you had footage of something unique and one-of-a-kind that had occurred or existed and was NOT available in any other resource ... something, say, historically significant. iankinnz on "the future of Blu-ray" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/the-future-of-blu-ray#post-74462 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:41:55 +0000 iankinnz 74462@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/   I agree with Weddingmaster Blu Ray is the way to go. Sure until the HD-DVD thing was settled and Hollywood movies started to be commonly released on Blu Ray, there was a low saturation of Blu Ray players. The extra cost to buy the Blu Ray version of a movie didnâ??t help either. But now that in New Zealand at least, the cost difference between Blu Ray and DVD movies is disappearing and players are starting to sell at sub NZ$100 the saturation of Blu Ray players is increasing. Analogue TV is being closed down here and replaced with mainly HD digital TV transmissions and large full HD flat panel TVs are selling as quickly as McDonaldâ??s hamburgers at the moment. Once HD becomes the norm DVDs will quickly become an inferior product. For myself, I purchased a Blu Ray burner for my workstation nearly two years ago and purchased my first HD camera about the same time. I have recently sold my last SD camera and will be completely HD (1080p) from now on. The difference in cost for blank media is insignificant compared to the production costs so why would you deliver your product on anything else but Blu Ray? Streaming may be fine but reliable bandwidth is some time away. Maybe Blu Ray will be replaced with SD cards or some such standard, but memory and replication costs will have to drop a long way to match. I think Blu Ray is here for a while yet. Peter Rose on "New Guy - Old Equipment" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/new-guy-old-equipment#post-74459 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:04:34 +0000 Peter Rose 74459@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/  Sorry, my post disappeared into cyberspace or something.  I was asking about using VHS-C format for documentaries for personal use and some I've done for local volunteer groups for promotional purposes. Is there any chance of using VHS-C or VHS for presentation of my work to a studio or PBS or TVO (Canada)? Thanks. Peter Rose Kenkyusha on "Where do I put my video files?" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/where-do-i-put-my-video-files#post-74413 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 09:50:12 +0000 Kenkyusha 74413@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ There is no faster way to kill your SSD than using it as a scratch drive. Plan B as you've outlined above scratching to a 7200 rpm physical drive is preferable, then backup to your toaster. Also, not keeping original assets can prove a costly prospect... having access to your entire body of work may be helpful (or even necessary) at some point. Despite the cost spike that disk drive space has taken lately (due to the flooding in Thailand), things should go back to normal soon, making it inexpensive enough to save all of your material twice, once as your 'on site' archive, and one that is the 'in case of emergency' version that is kept somewhere safe. Weddingmaster on "the future of Blu-ray" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/the-future-of-blu-ray#post-74406 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 04:57:22 +0000 Weddingmaster 74406@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ I feel just the opposite.I love Blu Ray and my clients love it as well. I do 90% Weddings, Most clients will ask for both BD and DVD and then I will get replies a week later saying WOW! what a difference. Part 2, I just learned recently that I can rip a BD recordable that I have created back to my editing timeline and still have H-264 quality ready to make demos, highlight discs etc. try that with a DVD. on another note I hope 3d fades away as quick as it did in the 70's or 80's whenever it was that they tried to push that weird format on everyone. :-) Im all for online playback and storage but with true 1080P youtube has a ways to go..even on the fastest connection out there. I have an HD demo on there now and have played it on several computers and they all have issues streaming without hiccups. Harry iankinnz on "the future of Blu-ray" http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/topic/the-future-of-blu-ray#post-74405 Wed, 01 Feb 2012 23:53:50 +0000 iankinnz 74405@http://www.videomaker.com/community/forums/ <html />